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If all of the ice of the Arctic ocean melted how far would the oceans rise?

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Posted - January 1, 2017

Responses


  • 17260
    Apparently the ice covering Greenland alone could raise the levels with 23 feet (7 meters). That's pretty bad.

      January 1, 2017 1:50 PM MST
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  • 5354
    Ice in the oceans does not affect the water level at all. It is the Ice resting on land we are concerned about. that are chiefly The south pole (Antarctica) and Greenland. Both have quite a lot of Ice resting on them and when all that ice melts it really will affect the waterlevel in the oceans.

    Glaciers and mountaintops hold Ice too, but the amount is neglible compared to Antarctica and Greenland.
      January 1, 2017 2:51 PM MST
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  • 17260
    Not fully true. Higher temperatures in the oceans should have the water masses fill more according to articles I've read. 
      January 1, 2017 2:54 PM MST
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  • 3719
    You're right, as the water expands as it warms. I don't know the likely figures.
      January 1, 2017 6:40 PM MST
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  • 17260
    The expansion of water should be a bigger risk than the Arctic flowing ice. Levels have already raised over the last decades and land has been flooded, and islands have disappeared.
      January 1, 2017 11:45 PM MST
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  • 5354
    Big chunks of the Ice caps have already melted so we dont really need heat expansion to explain it, but heat expansion definitely is a factor. I think it matters a little bit less than the melting, but cannot give figures for that.
    But here is a graph giving the density of water at different temperatures from freezing to boiling
    Oh, and average ocean depth is something like 2.3 miles
      January 2, 2017 1:22 AM MST
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  • 17260
    I read some research on it when looking for the Arctic Ocean ice melting. It seems a real threat. We have to remember it's not necessarily the ocean as such that needs getting heated up. An increase of a few degrees should have some notable effects too. I'm not a scientist and cannot explain it layman terms either, but the threat is real, and the sea level has already raised over the last decades, and put land and islands under water.
      January 2, 2017 1:33 AM MST
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  • 5354
    One thing I read was about fish migrating towards the poles wholesale to stay in water that is the same temperature as they are used to, That will upset fishermen no end when their usual fishing grounds suddenly hold much fewer fish than they are used to. Ditto with seaweed and barnacles that cannot just 'swim elsewhere', any change in temperature is likely to make their lives more difficult. They have been evolving a long time towards making best use of the (very constant) seawater temperature where they live, and it will take them just as long to evolve again when the temperature changes.
      January 2, 2017 2:13 AM MST
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  • 3719
    Note that melting sea-ice would have NO effect.

    It's large volumes of ice thawing from the land, such as Greenland, faster than overall snow-fall, that affects sea-level.

    I didn't view the video you cite (I don't have a YouTube account), but I read the précis below it, and that reads as if by some-one who had muddled things up. It talks of deep ocean currents below Greenland.

    Eh? Greenland is a continental, or at least sub-continental, island - it can't have ocean currents under it.

    Its ice might melt by atmospheric warming, but the comment didn't say that.

    Let's look at Greenland alone losing its ice-cap. Greenland holds a vast amount of ice but surely not enough on its own to raise world-wide sea-level by 7metres. I suspect the source of that figure is taking all land-ice, not just that island's.


    It would be easy to calculate given the figures: volume of ice on the island divided by world-wide area of sea.

    So let's try it. Looking up figures, and if someone with a better head for figures can verify my sums please do so (it's called Peer Review!):
      
       Ice volume on Greenland: 2.85 x 10^6 km^3 (approx.)

       Ocean area                      3.35 x 10^8 km^2 (approx.). Multiplying to give equal 10s-powers, = 335 X 10^6 km^2

         So Greenland's ice melted and added to the sea would raise the level by
       
         (2.85 / 335) X 10^(6-6)

         = 0.0085 x 10^0   (For any number N, N^0 = 1, by basic laws of indices and logarithms)
        
          = 0.0085 metres.


    In other words, melting Greenland's ice cover on its own as you suggest, would raise world-wide sea level by just about 9 millimetres!


    In practice, Greenland alone would not thaw under a warming climate. It could happen if Greenland is being warmed by developing volcanic-related activity below it, and about the only vaguely-sensible remark below the video draws attention to that, albeit rather childishly. 

    If all the ice on all other land of similar latitudes (except perhaps Antarctica, which on the whole is apparently cooling at present?) and on mountains up to a certain height, thawed too, by climate change, then the sea-level would certainly rise in metres, not mm.

    A 7 metre rise is credible for the present Ice Age's interglacials (warm phases, albeit the one we are occupying probably being accelerated by human activity). ... If we are not in an interglacial just be glad we won't live to see the possible result.

    The last interglacial's sea-level was about 10m above present, as I recall from the text-books. The upper Raised Beach at Portland Bill (local to me in Southern England), and a line of former sea-caves in the Garonne Estuary cliff (NW France), are at roughly that level above now by my own eye-ball estimates, though I don't know off-hand the interglacial to which they have been dated.


    Greenland would rise if its ice all melts away! Water is at its most dense at 4ºC - its water's unique physical as well as chemical properties that allow life to exist on Earth.

     So 2.85 x  10^6 km^3 of ice melting and warming to 4ºC, gives about  2.57 10^6 km^3 of water.

       1 km^3 of water weighs 1 x 10^9 tonnes.

    (I have used 1 cubic metre of water weighing 1 tonne at maximum density - I'm not sure if that's the standard temperature hence density for quoting water's properties, but it won't make much difference here).

    SO Greenland is wearing effectively 2.57 x 10^(6 + 9) tonnes of water, as ice. In words, that's 2.57 Thousand Million Million tonnes, enough to depress the Earth's crust below it. As the ice disappears the Crust will "rebound" (that is the proper term) by its own elasticity over the following 10-15 thousand years, raising the island above its present position. However if the thaw is world-wide by climate change rather than internal mechanisms, the sea's own rise would probably overtake the island's uplift.


    As I say I can't comment on the video because I can't view it, but it does show if you need proper answers to scientific questions you need to approach the problem and its principles properly. Unlike some of those posting below that YouTube video, who make me wonder about the future of education, especially in anything scientific - and (with the honourable exception of someone posting in what looks like Spanish) in English Language!
      January 1, 2017 4:00 PM MST
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  • 5354
    Well, Wiki agree with the 7 meters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet

    from the linked article:
    "The ice sheet is almost 2,400 kilometres (1,500 mi) long in a north-south direction, and its greatest width is 1,100 kilometres (680 mi) at a latitude of 77°N, near its northern margin. The mean altitude of the ice is 2,135 meters (7,005 ft)."
    width 600 miles * length 1200 miles * Thickness 1.5 miles gives a total of 1,090,000 cubic miles of water to be spread out over 140,000,000 square miles of ocean surface
    1,090,000 / 140,000,000 gives 0.00778th of a mile (near same number but different meaning than yours:)
    0.00778th of a mile is about  13 yards. That make more then 7 meters, but lets not quibble about it, much of my numbers are guesstimates since I do not know the precise shape and depth of the icecap, I am sure it is not such a neat rectangular shape as I have turned it into ;-))

    This post was edited by JakobA the unAmerican. at January 3, 2017 4:35 PM MST
      January 1, 2017 5:48 PM MST
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  • 44649
    That 1,090,000 miles^3 would not be on the surface but would become part over the volume of the ocean...except it is ALREADY  part of the volume of the oceans. Ergo...no rise.
      January 2, 2017 9:36 AM MST
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  • 5354
    Eh, no, those 1,090,000 cubic miles of ice is resting on the island of Greenland. It is Land Ice, not Sea Ice.
    You are quite right that sea ice do not matter in the equation for 'sea-level' though.
      January 2, 2017 11:50 AM MST
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  • 3719
    I used figures given because I knew they'd be more accurate then trying to work them out second-hand. You give "mean altitude" That's not the same as mean thickness, which is what I quoted & used. Greenland is fairly mountainous, so surface altitude of ice-cover is not a guide to ice volume, as in fact you more or less admit. 
      January 3, 2017 4:42 PM MST
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  • 17260
    Too many facts missed out, or directly wrong in your writing. I suggest you look deeper into Greenland before you continue making any further assumptions. The video should be able watching even without an YouTube account (I did).
      January 1, 2017 11:38 PM MST
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  • 1523
    Whoa!.....Quite a bit, I'd say.
      January 1, 2017 5:18 PM MST
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  • 3719

    Quite a bit... Which is?

    The question asks of the Arctic Ocean ice. That's floating sea-ice so won't make any difference.

    Sapphic Heart then quotes from some YouTube video about Greenland's ice-cover, and I showed that alone would have next to no effect, and why; but then I explained what would give a 7+ metre-rise, which would have serious consequences for us...

      January 1, 2017 5:35 PM MST
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  • 17260
    Your numbers are worthless, as they are based on false premises.
      January 1, 2017 11:40 PM MST
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  • 3719
    That was a bit rude, SapphicHeart. I thought you were above that.

    Please explain why my figures are wrong: I quoted as carefully as I could, volumes and area from straightforward geographical references, I took all care with my arithmetic but had the courage to invite verifying, and I made no false premises, assumptions or wild guesses. 

    I could not view the video because my attempt was met with a demand to establish a YouTube account. I did not expect that, but anyway I do not comply with such demands from third-party software unless I can be sure of all the ramifications.

    All I did was answer the three numerical questions you raised by the wording of your OP. These were:

    1) Effect on sea-level of Arctic Ocean ice melting, which I take to mean sea ice, and no other ice. (No effect if only sea-ice)
    2) Effect on sea-level of Greenland's ice, and no other ice, melting. (~9mm)
    3) By extension, what would raise sea-level by several metres. (All land ice melting by natural &/or human causes, with previous levels known from geological evidence.)

    I made no assumptions. I did not try to analyse how or why Greenland's ice alone might thaw, but cited a suggestion someone made on that YouTube thread.

    I found your remarks rather hurtful: disagree with other's opinions by all means, point out fair mistakes, but please do not imply they are liars by trying to read into their messages what was plainly not there, in order to try to discredit them for your own reasons you don't give. That does nothing for the debate, and at worst you merely discredit yourself as I hope no-one here wants. 
      January 2, 2017 3:29 PM MST
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  • 6988
    I like global warming ------- my nipples don't get hard so much!
      January 2, 2017 3:12 AM MST
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  • 17260
    I see, a Highlander.

      January 2, 2017 3:18 AM MST
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  • 44649
    I ONLY mentioned the Arctic Ocean ice. Try an experiment...fill an container with ice cubes, then fill it to the very top with water. When the ice melts observe what happens. Simple things always seem to work better than complicated (to most) maths.
      January 2, 2017 9:30 AM MST
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  • 17260
    Except you're missing out on the ice that adds on top when it breaks free from Greenland as an example. You'd have to add extra cubes to your already filled glass of water. On top of it, some land areas even just a little raise in the levels will mean a difference to the people living there. A glass is so much not going to show you the full consequences. IMHO.
      January 2, 2017 9:35 AM MST
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  • 3934
    @E99 -- So what?

    The fact that you "tricked" some AMers who didn't pay sufficient attention to the details of your question is a meaningless exercise. Anthropogenic climate change is a reality and, as several AMers pointed out, ice loss from land areas WILL contribute to significant sea level rise. Moreover, if the Artic ice sheet does melt, it will dramatically change the albedo of the region, causing more solar energy to be absorbed by the comparatively dark ocean water instead of being reflected by the ice sheet. Hence, Artic ice sheet melt tends to be a climate change forcing even if the ice melt itself doesn't significantly alter sea levels.

    http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2014/02/decreasing-arctic-albedo-boosts-global-warming.html
      January 2, 2017 9:42 AM MST
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  • 44649
    I know all of that...I used to teach it. It was a question I used to ask my students. And not meaningless as it brought up some good points. aMers can think too. Good job for catching it. Oh...let us not forget about the change of the density currents.
      January 2, 2017 11:42 AM MST
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