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Benedict Arnold

Gently, Brother/Sister, Gently, Pray...will you come to an atheist debate?

I just watched a Neil DeGrasse Tyson video, and he told how modern atheism got started.
It was All-Saints-Day in Lisbon, very holy day in the year 1755, and everybody was in church when a HUGE earthquake came. Well the earthquakes are hardest on the tallest buildings - the churches - and so 80,000 people were killed as they worshipped. 

Then a tsunami came, and leveled the rest of Lisbon.
So, led by Voltaire, people started thinking; "Either God is not all powerful or else God is not all that Good either, to let this happen."
And that, according to Neil DeGrasse Tyson, was the beginning of modern atheism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2Mu2d2ywA&list=PLYi0fCCfA5Ub-HgXHvCRLkSusj1EAh3Y9

* * *
So my question:
If God does not meet our human expectations of what it means to be good, and all-powerful, does that mean there is no God?

Gently, pray Gently...

Posted - February 20, 2017
Tags : None

Responses


  • Certainly. But then we can explore the duality of, "There, but by the grace of God, go I"; when it might be more poignant to observe that "There, by the 'grace' of God, goes (the unfortunate) someone else." This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at February 23, 2017 10:17 AM MST
      February 22, 2017 10:29 AM MST
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  • That one always bothered me also, Zee!
      February 23, 2017 10:19 AM MST
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  • 1393
    "Is it then only proper to thank an arsonist for burning our house down, if we survive the blaze?" of course not, but what if he was not an arsonist. What if he knew that there was a risk of fire and asked you to keep away or made sure that you were not present?
      March 27, 2017 2:04 PM MDT
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  • 1326
    What an interesting story of the beginning of atheism. What I find devastating as to why many have turned to atheism is that the answer lies within religion, false religion. Especially the churches of christendom that claim to worship God yet keep people in the dark about the God of the Bible. An example of the ignorance that has existed is the story you tell. For people to question God's power & might because of an earthquake and lose faith in his existence when they had religious leaders to enlighten them with God's word is an injustice to God, and everyone who depended on the existing knowledge, but was deliberately withheld from them. Romans 1:20 says: "for his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship," there is no reason to think or believe that God is holding back from revealing himself to anyone. Anyone who wishes to know God can come to know him. (James 4:8)
      February 21, 2017 10:59 PM MST
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  • It might be significant to realize there have always been atheists. Why are the scriptures rallying against unbelief if there weren't? Also unbelief, atheism, is our original state, we hold no beliefs out of the womb, no one emerges into the world knowing any gods. These things are taught. 
    The rest is interpretation, as is your difference with the "churches of Christendom". Drawing from the same source, they have had many centuries to craft their positions on the Gospels, you have had maybe a couple decades to form yours. This is why there are some 40,000 different denominations of that faith.  This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 27, 2017 2:31 PM MDT
      February 22, 2017 5:05 AM MST
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  • 1393
    Good points Z but not very sure about "we hold no beliefs out of the womb" I also take as an interesting proposition your assertion that "no one emerges into the world knowing any gods" and wonder whether you're prepared to consider a possibility that they might intuitively develop a belief in God. As for "These things are taught." what about in the beginning when there was no teacher? 
      March 27, 2017 2:29 PM MDT
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  • Somebody thought the dogma up, ask yourself why it differs so much from place to place. Inquiring about bigger questions for which no answers could be found, their assumptions made sense for them at that time. Just as every belief makes sense to someone. 
      March 27, 2017 3:56 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    Sounds good Z

    "Somebody thought the dogma up" intuitively, of course, without a human teacher.

    As for "why it differs so much from place to place" it could be through evolution of thought and progressive development through questioning, perhaps.

    "Inquiring about bigger questions for which no answers could be found, their assumptions made sense for them at that time." Quite admirably rational of them, of course. Just as it is rational for us to postulate possibilities about bigger questions for which no definitive answers have yet been found in our time.

    It is true that "every belief makes sense to someone" but to make sense to more it must be open to questioning by these more and produce answers that make sense to these more.
      March 27, 2017 4:30 PM MDT
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  • There you go. :-)
      March 27, 2017 5:27 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    TY Z, glad we've found common ground.

    have a nice day
      March 27, 2017 6:35 PM MDT
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  • Dear Autumn Leaves,
    I appreciate your thoughtful comment...reminds me of a quote from Rumi that I especially like...

    "Come out of the circle of time, and into the circle of love." This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at February 22, 2017 5:01 PM MST
      February 22, 2017 8:49 AM MST
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  • 34253
    Not everything that happens is ordered by God. 
    Sometimes bad things happen to good people. As Jesus says in Luke 13, where there was a sudden accident and a tower had fallen on people. Jesus says "Were these people greater sinners than others?" Jesus said no, and we should all repent that the same should not happen to us.
    Meaning that we should repent as any of us could go suddenly as well. 

    God does not send the "acts of God" as the insurance company uses the phrase. Natural disasters happen as a result of weather patterns. 
    God does good all the time. The enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. 
      February 22, 2017 4:35 AM MST
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  • Dear my2cents,

    I did not even know that Yeshua ben Joseph had addressed this very situation...appears quite parallel to the 1755 tragedy in Lisbon...ima look it up, thank you for insightful and thoughtful comment!
      February 22, 2017 8:58 AM MST
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  • 1393

    Gently, Brother/Sister, Gently, Pray...will you come to an atheist debate?

    I just watched a Neil DeGrasse Tyson video, and he told how modern atheism got started.

    It was All-Saints-Day in Lisbon, very holy day in the year 1755, and everybody was in church when a HUGE earthquake came. Well the earthquakes are hardest on the tallest buildings - the churches - and so 80,000 people were killed as they worshipped.

    Then a tsunami came, and leveled the rest of Lisbon.

    So, led by Voltaire, people started thinking; "Either God is not all powerful or else God is not all that Good either, to let this happen."

    And that, according to Neil DeGrasse Tyson, was the beginning of modern atheism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2Mu2d2ywA&list=PLYi0fCCfA5Ub-HgXHvCRLkSusj1EAh3Y9

     

    * * *

    So my question:

    If God does not meet our human expectations of what it means to be good, and all-powerful, does that mean there is no God?

    ========================================================================================

    If God is the all-powerful supreme being above whom there is no being of any description whatsoever then it follows that EVERYTHING, be it "good" or "bad" from the human perspective, MUST come from Him. So all "good" AS WELL AS all "bad" cannot but only confirm His existence. Consequently, the more "good" we experience the more, not less, firm should our belief in His existence become, and EQUALLY the more "bad" we experience the more, not less, firm should our belief in His existence become.

    No [or false] path to atheism there, I'm afraid.

    This post was edited by CLURT at March 27, 2017 3:17 PM MDT
      March 27, 2017 3:15 PM MDT
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