What's middle of the road? Is it the same as wishy-washy? or undecided? Are they good or bad in the scheme of things?

Absolutely right... I cannot disagree..  On this one though I perhaps wasn't as clear as I might be.. I was only thinking middle of the road re Trump..

I guess you could say that I am in ways.  Have zero faith in him and think he's a terrible person.  Though I don't think he is as awful as some think he is.   Felt the same about all the Presidents and politicians since I been able to vote.  All chit.   Though more people seem to wake up to it being chit,  which is nice.

Wellll it kinda doesn't matter.. it's a standalone thread I feel... I was just thinking about these middle of the roaders re Trump... I suspect I perhaps didn't make it clear enough that I was specifically talking about trump... but that was definitely the intention.. I dont get people who can, after all he has said and done, say oh let's give him time.. what?????? after the antics and awful behaviour he has already displayed!!! 

Then you've directed this at me because that is exactly what I've said.  Let's give him time.  To be quite frank and not intended to offend you've judged Trump on just over one month in the job which I feel is unfair.  He's not a politician yet he was still voted in so he has to find his feet.  It's the same as putting you in the WH oval office and saying just get on with it you would make some horrendous mistakes. 
As a fellow Brit you know the effects of the immigration chaos that has become our country and Trump has clearly seen that too, what he is trying to do is stop that happening in his country.  He has made mistakes in trying to implement his travel ban but then you would most likely have fallen into the same trap.
People were afraid to complain about Obama, who made some big whoopsies although he was a seasoned politician because the screams of racist would be heard loud and clear.
I'm saying it again GIVE TRUMP SOME TIME.  He may totally blow himself out of the water or he may not we just have to wait and see but it's pointless to jump on his every move right now.  He's the President at this point in time and appears to be trying to do what he thinks is best for his country.
Clinton was a disgrace and lied in front of millions of people, Obama made mistakes all the Presidents have made mistakes because of their individual personalities and their beliefs.
Now have I made my middle of the road stand clear enough?

Trawling back to try to understand why you have just attacked me.. . so let's try to examine and understand what happened here..  I looked and haven't attacked you in any way.. YOU have identified yourself with middle of the road re Trump.. I never said you were.. or were not. you have claimed it..  But even so.. I never at any point made a personal attack on you.. I made an observation regarding that imo those who overlook the terrible things he has done  are again imo likened to those who ignore evil,  the opposite of the good samaritan who stops to help.. I base this on the good men saying nothing allows evil to perpetuate..  it's JUST an opinion.. you don't have to agree..  so all those comments about hate wagons and your getting to the point where you make personal insults... well it was unwarranted. 

I DID on here ask you if you overlook his behaviour, his words, his lies, his deviousness.. those were VALID questions and I was asking because I would have been interested in your answer.. You have chosen not to answer questions but instead have engaged in personal attack.. not sure why.. but it is what it is..  unkind as I didn't insult you.. merely asked you questions and made general comments regarding good and evil.. I never said YOU at any point there.. but hey ho.. it's hate me day today so I will just take it on the chin...  Sapphic talked about name calling..  but wasn't talkign about me per se.. glad you agree with her.. I mostly always do too but I have found  sapphic and i can agree to disagree respectfully.. and neither of us have ever tried to insult the other...

"you've judged Trump on just over one month in the job which I feel is unfair."  Just to clarify... as this seems to be the basis of your ire and it's something I can hopefully answer without incurring more of your wrath,  No.. that's not what I have judged him on.. I have judged him on, as MOST here have, (I've asked and asked as many people I can about their opinions and most say the similar) the fact that he has lied, he has NO class, he has behaved abhorrently in the run up to the election and since.. he has said the most shockingly appalling things and then denied them.. he engaged in very petty immature behaviour during the campaign.. he has behaved in a very immature way since the election.. he has launched counterproductive attacks on; his own people, the press and MOST of the other countries of the world and offended most of them.. he has behaved in a war-mongering way.. he has dubious attitudes towards the russians and has engaged in double standards re Russian involvement.. and hacking.. it's BAD when it affects him but not otherwise.. like Hilary was negligent apparently when she allowed herself to be hacked.. and it's ok for the Russians to interfere in the election but apparently this illogical allegation against Obama for supposedly tapping HIS phone is an abuse against the "very sacred election system"  I base it on the fact that while he bemoaned Obama's holidays he has already spent nearly the same amount in just 4 weekend trips as Obama did in 8 years...  I could go on.. but I don't expect it's helpful..

FWIW its worth you are entitled to your opinion, I disagree with it as I am entitled.. that doesn't make me a bad person.. when  i made comments about good people ignoring evil... and I truly believe Trump IS evil and a dangerous mentally unbalanced narcissist.. but i never EVER directed those comments about you... and I am sorry I don't feel I deserved  your attack.. feel free to reply, that's your right but personally I will not bother engaging in any more discourse with you. we agree on many things I am sure, and it's sad to see this behaviour from a fellow Brit.. but sorry your behaviour here is unpleasant. - sorry to have to say that.. I shall try my best to forget your attack here. I bid you a good evening.. 

You don't have my wrath and I didn't attack you.  You see if you feel you can dish out the comments such as I have quoted then you have to expect people will call you out on it.  Comparing middle of the road people to people who would walk by a starving child or animal was unkind to see the least and extremely disrespectful, are you unable to see that? I just can't understand your endless Trump bashing and it disturbs me that as a Brit you feel you must daily post on here to the extent that nobody else does. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 12, 2017 1:21 PM MDT

I've dished out only general comments that I have little or even no respect for those who support a man who has clearly lied, and who has behaved in very questionable ways disrespecting his own people, the country's security, and who poses a world threat.. so what? I get to have an opinion too don't I? Is there any need to get all bristled? I never attacked you.. i never made ANY personal statements about you.. there is no need for you to behave this way.. 
Sure I can take comments, if they are well formulated and kept impersonal.. when it gets to accusations and personal attacks well that gets harder...  Let's get things straight.. I didn't directly compare middle of the road people to anything as such.. I said people who ignore evil,  are akin to .... So really there is a huge amount of twisting of fact here.. 
Let's examine your last points ... YOU say you cannot understand my "endless Trump bashing"  - so when I say i can't understand how people can be middle of the road and fail to note or care about Trump's appalling and repeated bad behaviour and the dangers he poses worldwide... you believe I am not entitled to an opinion? But you are? 
And I am not entitled to comment on posts and news about Trump because I am a Brit???  Tho you are a Brit too... 
Lastly.. and completely tellingly... you state that I "daily post on here to the extend that nobody else does." - lol I daily post?? and No one else does??? Oh silly me I didn't know that we weren't allowed to use this site daily!!! Someone should have explained :P  
Do you mean generally or in relation to Trump? Lol cos seriously... you need to have a good look around :P  I have no reason to disrespect you personally.. but frankly you are wrong on that.. and many other things. 

Coming back to this and trying to make sense of your posts. I can see you JUMPED in here, responding to another's post.. saying, or claiming that I was directing this at you.. I never said the post was directed at you.. it wasn't.. you claimed that..and it went on from there.. I am not sure why you seemed to feel any of this was directed at you.. but that was an error on your part.  I aim noting at anyone.. if i have a problem with something someone says I tell them so.. so really there was no need for you to make any assumptions here that I aimed anything at you.. I didn't.. I feel you have made everything personal when it has never been.. That is most regrettable as I think, aside from this issue we would agree on many things. Such a shame

It did matter to me because I wanted to understand the context in which the phrase was used so I could respond with a reasoned answer. But, I have read all the comments back and forth on this entire thread.  I have no interest in spinning my wheels.  

OK Harry.. I can see it mattered to you... truth is I can't remember which post it was.. I know who ... and I know what was said...but would be really hard to find the exact post.. I do see your point... you want to understand and make sense of the comment and what context I used it in..I can tell you that, someone said that I shouldn't call Trump names because I might upset the middle of the road people.. I kinda felt that it wasn't my duty to worry about people I don't even know and who, no offence, don't matter to me.. but I got to thinking.. who are these middle of the road people.. I assumed they were the ones who hadn't voted for Trump but were saying things like ..well let's give him a chance, see what he's like, he might be ok..  I am only guessing that's who he meant. but when I thought about it...I couldn't see why I should pander to them.. and I found I didn't much respect them.. sorry just being honest, because in my opinion they were overlooking very real BAD behaviour and the awful things Trump had said and done.. to me it was like condoning of pardoning his behaviour.. I believe, as do many many that his behaviour is inexcusable...he's an awful man.. not someone who should ever be prez.. I think he's evil.. I think he has done evil things..that shouldn't be overlooked .. and imo people who do overlook his history and his behaviour in the run up to the election are tantamount to good men who are looking the other way.. and yea at one point I compared that thinking (tho I didn't ever point to any one person) to those who might walk by a starving child or dog in the street.. lets face it.. many would and DO... as I say I have little respect for that.. to stand by and say nothing... I accept and did say... that I recognise they cannot DO anything.. but that they seem to blithely condone his actions by saying lets give him a chance...well sorry imo that's not something I understand...
However, things spiraled out of control as things often do.. people got carried away...some self identified with the middle of the road and accused me of saying THEY personally were this or that.. I didn't and wouldn't ... so there you have it.. a storm in a teacup.

It mattered to me because I wanted to respond to you in a reasoned and logical way.  It's apparent from both your posts to me here and even your response to Livvie's post on this thread when it was explained to you what middle of the road means, that you don't care about the answer to your questions.  You never had any real interest in the answers or a reasoned discussion of same.  If you did, you wouldn't have ignored my other post on Flipper's Criticism thread and then, suddenly jumped back here two days later to my last response.  All these things you are going on about here is just a repeat and rehash of various posts you have made over the past couple of days.  Please, stop repeating and attempting to defend your position.  It doesn't change what I wrote to you on that other thread.  It doesn't change what is happening between you and many of the other posters here.  You say things like "no offense","sorry just being honest", and "just my opinion" as you attack people for the way they are choosing to handle the situation here.  It is disingenuous and everyone sees through it.  You are extremely judgmental about a situation in which you admit you have no knowledge and certainly show no interest in learning about.  You are being extremely unkind and rude to friends you have made here.  It is quite apparent you are only interested in your own opinion and being purposefully obtuse to further your own agenda. You are acting the troll whether you see it or not.  Saying I am very disappointed in how you are choosing to handle this is an understatement.  Let's see how long people's patience here holds out.  Mine is getting quite tattered. 

"Livvie's post on this thread when it was explained to you what middle of the road means, that you don't care about the answer to your questions."  excuse me????? Seriously I feel you are being unfair here. Your motive seems to have a go at me I feel.. You are entitled to your opinion of course but re Livvie I THANKED her.. I have NO IDEA why you are saying I don't want to listen but honestly, factually, your interpretation, your analysis is way off here.. way way.. I have no idea why you said it truly I don't..
Livvie explained some of who these people are.. I thanked her.. sorry I fail to see what your problem is here.. and I say that respectfully and honestly..

Re my supposedly ignoring something.. again, I am sorry but you have entirely misjudged me, again unfairly.. if you have read my posts, and I think I say it on my profile too.. I do say that I very often miss things. I Have explained why SEVERAL TIMES and I have asked that if I miss anything, if anyone feels I might have missed something to please let me know.. My reason AGAIN is that I am not always here, I am often working on the computer and have the page open, my time zone is different.. AND i work twice, day and night til late, several times a week. . SO I very often return to the computer to 30+ notifications and because of that I tend to look at the first 8-9 only because I don't have time to trawl through all the notifications.. I HAVE explained this.. . I am guessing you prefer your own explanation tho and that's very sad because I always  had utmost respect for you. That you seem so keen and willing to misjudge me so readily is shocking.. you clearly know nothing about me..

The ONLY reason I Jumped back here was that YOUR post happened at at time when there were less notifications.. simple..  but as you prefer to make your own version up and prefer to judge.. I don't see what I can do.. I very much doubt you will listen to anything I say at this point. your mind is made up..

What you call repeating and defending was PURELY Me answering, what I believed to be your genuine question.. You have said previously about people being nice enough to respond.. I noticed your response so I responded. simple.. and I never intentionally ignore any response to me but am honest enough to admit that due to time and nature of my work etc I often miss things..  Sadly I think you have already made up your mind.. what was I supposed to do? I saw your post,and having seen it, should I have ignored it??I am sorry but  I thnk you are being very unkind and undeservedly so.

I have never been rude to friends.. no idea where you get that from. And friends wouldn;t say that now would they. there are people I debate with and sometimes there are misunderstandings  but I never disrespect them.. and they KNOW this.. not sure why you feel you know better than them.. or why you feel it's YOUR place to say this to me.. Anyone who IS a friend on here is MOST welcome to tell me if they have a problems with anything I say.. THey know this too.. as I am always up front and honest. 

I don't have an agenda.. again that is your, rather unkind, interpretation and analysis .. sorry it's frankly very wrong. I have said, if you cared to read my posts rather than take things out of context as you clearly are here.. that a) I post very few trump questions 107 questions and 35 are Trump related.. yet I have been accused of having an obsession and you now say I have an agenda.. frankly you are wrong.. and it is undeserved.. I doubt you will see this in YOUR agenda..
Re defending.. if one is misjudged should one not seek to explain? Maybe not in your book.. but in mine that's exactly what I do .. always have always will..  sorry if you don't like it.. clearly you have an issue here .. I have NO idea where it came from... or how to address it.. I fear your mind is closed and nothing I say will get through such barriers as you have put up here.. that's very sad...

Re your ACCUSATION Of me attacking anyone.. for the most part I have only sought to defend myself against attacks and misunderstandings.. such as yours.. I have NEVER attacked anyone...  I never said anything to any person.. I explained everything I say is just my opinion. but I stand by what I said.. I never accused anyone of being middle of the road...but if they self identify and believe it's about them that is NOT my fault.. I spoke only in general terms.. I spoke honestly and earnestly.. IF these middle of the road people ARE overlooking the truly heinous things Trump has said and done then sorry I have little rspect for them.. SO WHAT.. seriously so what... I never said I have no respect for any individual. and we ALL have groups whose opinions we don't respect.. it's hypocritical to say otherwise.. so please don't be acting sanctimoniously here it's unbecoming!!

Livvie, who I truly DO appreciate and liked her posts explained that these middle of the roaders do NOT necessarily fail to speak up about the awful things trump has done.. SO sorry you are again wrong, I have learned this and am grateful to LIvvie for that.. so.. my understanding now is that middle of the roaders are NOT such a cut and dried category as I was LED to believe... therefore it's HIGHLY likely that I would be entirely able to respect them .. .I certainly don't have a prob with people who are neither left or right.. so i have NO IDEA what you are on about here.. I think you just wanted to fire off a few more shots at me.. Does it make you feel good? I will go check again both my original posts and Livvies.  but I honestly feel I have not been disrespectful.. I think the problem here is people entirely misunderstanding and getting the wrong end of the stick.. I never said anyone here is this or that.. I spoke about a group, at that point undefined and asking for clarification on that, who overlook Trump's behaviour and evil... I was perfectly entitled to hold that opinion.. and sorry you are entitled to disagree but all this nastiness is not necessary.. I can only think that you identify with the position and are mad about what i say.. well in that case you were perfectly entitled to say so.. .and I would have dealt with it. all this underhanded sneakiness, pretending you care about where the original comments about middle of the road came from.. you never meant those.. you just wanted another chance to fire some pot shots.. I am shocked and hurt.. but I very much doubt you will care in the least... very disappointed. 

As promised |I have examined my posts and Livvies.. no doubt you will only see this in a bad light and wont see at all that I am trying to explain,, to try my hardest to help you see.. that whatever you seem to think ... you have misjudged me.  

In my original post I wrote. 

>>I think i have decided I don't have much respect for them! If these are people who overlook and ignore Trump's truly appalling behaviour, the lying, the hate speech, the insults, the thoroughly ill-tempered tweets, the unprofessionalism, the stupidity, the bullying attitude then I have decided that these are people who by doing nothing aide and abet such awful behaviour.. My feeling here harks back to another inspirational post on here.. about good men doing nothing..<<

 

That’s what I said on the original post.. it made it clear that I wasn't even being against a whole group just because they were middle of the road..I am not against any middle of the roader who never mentions Trump or who has no opinion on him...  only those who seem to overlook Trump's behaviour and say let's give him a chance.. I don't get it.. I don't understand how they can do that..  BIG deal.. was that SO awful that some on here decide to take it personally and start blowing their top at me?? Was it enough for YOU to do so.. me just saying I don’t have much respect for such people.. Can you honestly say, hand on heart you respect everyone, even those you don’t agree with? I doubt it! And you sure haven’t shown me any respect!!!  So please let’s not be holier than thou.

 

As to Livvie.. I LIKED ALL OF HER POSTS on this topic.. I don’t ever like anything unless that’s how I feel.. 

 

Livvie has not mentioned to me any concerns about anything I wrote in response to her.. if she did I would deal with that and answer her concerns… but she hasn’t ..

 

I said.. “ Yes, good definition.. and I think in many things many of us are, or can be middle of the road.. it's no bad thing..  Only in this case, the Trump case.. I cannot feel it's good.. to stand by, to even say, let's give him a chance, after all the terrible and shocking things he has done...   I dont get that... just don't :(“ 

 

I believe I showed no disrespect to Livvie there.. .I indicated that I HAD learned and taken on board what she said,  I said MANY OF US are middle of the road, based on her explanation and that it is, or can be, no bad thing… not sure what part of that you aren’t understanding?  How does that indicate that I haven’t learned or listened?  why you think differently is beyond me but you are entirely wrong on that front.   I DID then go on and specify that the only problem I had then, discounting MOST of these middle of the road people based on Livvies explanation.. that in the case of Trump, where there are SOME people who seemingly overlook the awful things he has done and said and say things like give him a chance etc.. ….then in THAT instance, then I don’t feel it’s good.. and I don’t get it..  Again SO WHAT.. big deal.. I have NO IDEA why you are getting so upset about this…. I am only saying that re people who say let’s give Trump a chance, despite all he has done, all the awful behaviour.. I don’t understand it.. yes and I believe it’s akin to good men doing nothing.. These people are imo condoning his behaviour if they are willing to overlook what he has done.. so what.. what’s the big deal.. we are all adult enough to accept that others have different opinions..this is no worse than anyone having differing opinions on Trump.. not sure why you have singled this out..  I am sorry you personally seem to be offended… but I don’t see why.

 

So you don’t like my disagreeing with Trump, you are entitled to  that.. many on here would agree with you.. again so what.. doesn’t change my right to my opinion.. it’s not like I said anything was fact and it’s not like I insulted anyone personally..

 

Livvie then went on to say… “Saying that is putting middle of the road people into a package and trying to make them all think alike which is where political animals in the USA go wrong right away.  Treating people who have some liberal beliefs and some conservative beliefs as one group and trying not to offend them is an impossible standard.”  Livvie generously explained something and I later indicated my gratitude.. not sure why or how you have a problem with this.. Livvie didn’t seem to, or not that she has mentioned. Livvie didn’t seem to be attacking me in anyway.. she seemed to me just explaining.. It’s important to remember that it wasn’t *I* who called people middle of the road.. the category was put to me.. I didn’t know any different until Livvie explained.. in this SOMEONE ELSE defined these people as a group, all together, a package.. it wasn’t me.. Livvie seemed to understand that.. and that’s why she explained it…again not sure why you have a problem with it..

 

Livvie said, “trying not to offend them is an impossible standard” this seemed to indicate to me that Livvie had correctly understood that I genuinely had no idea that they weren’t a package as had been put to me.. and she seemed to me to be agreeing that it was an impossible thing to not offend a rather amorphous group…  I DID explain countless times that I had no problem with middle of the road per-se ..

 

As to your very unfair and unreasonable claim that I took no notice and wasn’t interested in learning.. my words were.” Thank you Livvie... your explanation was patient and reasoned. I appreciate that..People forget I think that, while I know lots about Trump (lol more than I want to know!) and I've been learning about the States for over 20 years, in real terms there's much I don't understand...  “   I have a pretty good grasp of the English language and from where I sit  I clearly indicated appreciation for her answer and I indicated that I had learned and understood.. DO we not talk the same language or something? Is there some American/English something that means something there that doesn’t mean the same here? It’s all I can think of by way of explanation cos I DEFINITELY DID indicate appreciation and learning.. I am mystified here.. truly..

 

I then tried to understand some of the misunderstanding I had had about middle of the roaders..I explained.. my misunderstanding regarding the term had been originally presented to me… I said…  “Like this term middle of the road.. it uses words I understand.. middle.. road etc.. and I have an idea that it sorta means people who are not one side or the other.. But it was used in a context that I didn't understand..”  Again I think I was perfectly clear here.. I admitted I hadn’t understood the context of middle of the roaders… and was grateful to Livvie for explaining.. for clarity again.. I NOW understand that middle of the roaders are NOT a narrowly defined group… I reiterated my OPINION re the narrow group, as in NOT most middle of the roaders… who seem to overlook Trump’s heinous behaviour..

 

Then to finish up I said to Livvie, “You are the only one who has taken the trouble to try to explain these middle of the roaders to me - thank you  cos that was definitely a large part of my question. “  Again there is CLEAR indication here that I WAS and AM interested in learning.. to use a quaint old Brit expression.. I am fucked if I know why you have chosen to see it entirely differently.. truly I am baffled.. cos I don’t think I could be any clearer!!! But you see it differently.. I’d love to somehow make this ok..you were as I say always someone I respected… but at this point seeing as you seem so utterly intent on blaming and attacking me.. I cannot see how anything I can say to you will make a difference.. if even CLEAR words are misunderstood I am unoptimistic as to how I can explain or help you understand that you have misjudged me.

 

As to Livvie.. I apologise unreservedly here for using your name and your posts.. please believe I regret having to do that.. I feel awful about it.. but the person who is currently misjudging me has used your posts to try to claim I disrespected you, and failed to learn from or appreciate what you said. I promise you that is not true.. If I say I have learned and thank  someone.. then I mean it.. I am not the kind of person to be two faced.

 

Lastly back to Harry.. if you feel I have offended FRIENDS on here then again please feel free to try throwing that at me as well as all your other accusations.. I will grant you that Sapph and I had a debate… and I think we were both very frustrated because we both had felt we were saying mean things about the other.. she had felt I was calling her boring, I had felt she was accusing me of indiscriminate name calling.. we worked through this.. and I have, and always will utmost respect for Sapph.. we often comment on each other’s posts. We have had misunderstandings of this kind before.. but we have ALWAYS dealt with it.. and we did this time.. if Sapph feels I have wronged her still then she is ALWAYS welcome to discuss it with me…and we did talk personally afterwards.. so again not sure why you feel you have to get involved here.. I didn’t treat Sapph badly. Nor she me.. if you feel otherwise again you are mistaken..

I saw you thanked Livvie.  That's not what I'm talking about.  

I wasn't "pretending."  Your question was framed in a way that placed everyone here on the defensive and I was trying to get the context so I could possible defuse what was going on.  But you blew me off and you keep deflecting at every turn.  Take yourself away from this thread for a week and then come back and read it.  You attacked Yogafan and then claimed she was attacking you.  You attacked Karen and then claimed she was attacking you.  You deflect and deflect with all sorts of excuses -- jobs, life, you make claims you never said the things that are right in your posts, you make claims they were jokes.  If you are that busy, then please, just take the time to ask your questions in a way that encourages discussion and an exchange of ideas to avoid conflicts.  That is what I was saying and have been saying.  You are refusing to acknowledge that. Instead you deflect and accuse. I don't have the time to go back and read all your posts.  I can only make an assessment on what I have been seeing over the past few days.  I very much doubt you are shocked and hurt.  You are only throwing those words back at me.  I am done trying.  It is useless talking to you.  Just keep doing what you are doing.     

Harry... you say, " But you blew me off and you keep deflecting at every turn. " I am wondering if this is the real problem here? that you feel I have disrespected you? You are hurt?  If so then I am genuinely sorry.. I would never ever have done that...I have explained I never ignore anyone intentionally.. I DO miss posts.. 

I explained too that I truly don't know the original post that mentioned middle of the roaders..  I answer so many posts that it would be very difficult to find.. I sense that this has upset you.. I regret that.. but it was never ever an attempt to brush you off.. I doubt you will accept that.. 

SO on to Yoga.. she is NOT a friend.. I have agreed on many of her posts.. on this occasion my perception was that she went off into the deep end.. she seemed to feel that I Had been accusing HER of walking past starving children.. she self-identified with the post... I NEVER ever said anything personal to anyone.. I DO still feel that those who say we should give trump a chance after all he has done, the LIES to his OWN people, to other countries, the way he has treated his own people etc.. are guilty of overlooking evil.. if yoga doesnt agree and you dont. that's your perogative.. but I don't see why I should change my opinion when I wasn't insulting ANYONE... maybe they have a guilty consceince I don't know.. I've no idea why Yoga seemed to feel it was personal..she jumped in and made that assumption.. I never once said anything person about that to her.. so if you interpret it differntly that's down to you.. but i didn't ever say to anyone YOU are guilty of ignoring evil.. so yea I felt she attacked me.. going off on one about it when I hadn't ever even considered she might be one of those people  guilty of, in my opinion ignoring evil.. and SHE got pretty rough about it all.. I had felt I had posted something that was no better or worse than saying my opinion.. people seem to have misunderstood.. that's regrettable ... 

The post to Karen.. again she isn't a friend.. but I DID put a :P again not sure what that means in your world but it is a very CLEAR emoticon.. it means joking.. the response, was .. as Karen pointed out entirely illogical.. THAT was the point.. it was illogical so it CAN only be a joke.. jeeze so I make what's clearly a joke and have you jumping all over me because of it..and you don't see this is attacking?? Getting at me for things I have explained and demonstrated i DID NOT DO.. 

YOu say i make excuses.. sorry but YOU are the one who says I said this I did that.. and then I SHOW you my post... and show I DIDN'T.. sorry but if you think I am going to sit and take that you are mistaken.. you have been wrong, I have proven it.. cite Livvie cite Karen, and the CLEAR use of words and emoticons which prove what I say.. but STILL you claim otherwise.. 

Re askiing questions in a way that encourage answers... you say you have been saying this all along..this is the FIRST you have mentioned it.. you claimed I didn't listen to Livvie and wasnt interested in learning.. I showed proof that wasn't so.. so i say again you haven't said this before.. if this is what this is all about then please accept my apologies.. as when I posted the original question I had NO idea people couldnt see that I was genuinely asking a question.. who are these middle of the roaders, and SHOULD we bow to the supposed wishes of some amophous group and try not to offend them... It was a gen question.. sorry you dnt see that.. perhaps to me it was a throwaway question and I didn't word it well.. I hav e been guilty of that before..in my rush I can word things clumsily...  i am often in too much of a rush.. but I had felt this was a fairly innocent question seems not but I DO honestly believe tht those who got all indignant MISUNDERSTOOD...

FOr you to claim that I am not shocked and hurt is extremely unwarranted.. it again shows you have NO idea about me and who i am.. I am very sorry you feel that way..

As to me going away from this post for a week.. may I remind you this is MY post.. I will come to it as and when I wish.. sorry if that offends you but that's the way it is.. you hAVE entirely misjudged me and you have launched an undeserved sustained attack  against me here.. I have the right to defend myself and i have PROVEN where you keep making unsubstantiated rather nasty claims and accusations that they are NOT true..

I think we can agree on one thing.. it's entirely useless to keep trying here.. I respected you.. I wanted you to understand that you had misjudged me.. I tried hard to explain.. i gave it all i had.but you seem determined to disrespect and dislike me.. it is what it is.. I am sorry you feel that way.. yea hurt too given we had previously no problems..  but since you disrespect and don't want to hear anything i say it's probably best we leave it here.  

PS if you would care to LOOK at my questions you would see that they are infrequently about Trump AND for the most part ARE worded reasonably well and certainly no worse than anyone else's... for some reason you have taken exception to me and mine.. but overlook others.. que cera.. but I can see that facts won't change your opinion as it's so firmly and inextricably entrenched it seems..  

This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 12, 2017 3:14 PM MDT

I am sure you are right.... lol in a way... but on the other hand if a skunk is a skunk and stinks like hell.. should we pretend he smells of roses?  I call names that are appropriate.. Id say it to his face so there's nothing dishonest or ingenuine about my use of names.. I think he's evil.. so i call him evil.. I think he's arrogant.. so I call him arrogant... I truly, hand on heart believe he is stupid, unintelligent.. so i say he is stupid.. I don't call him anything that I don't genuinely believe there is evidence to support.. when I say he behaves like a spoilt child.. then that's not name calling.. it's a description of what I see.. 

You are just a really nice person :P but let's face it.. if the only words we could use were bully and clown.. it would be kinda boring :P

Not name shaming someone isn't the same as pretending they smell like roses. Furthermore I doubt it has any real value whether you are boring or not in this perspective. Isn't it the idea behind bullying, to make oneself look more interesting on the costs of someone else? Name calling/shaming is the work of a bully. Period. How can you advocate for anti-bullying and yet support such ways to talk about another human living (he is no matter how much we might disrespect him)?

Telling he is arrogant, and dishonest isn't name calling in my universe. Just you make sure to have the examples ready for where it fits him (should be plenty to pick from) should you be challenged. 

Have me excused, I'll get back to my boring self, being a nice person not using such words about someone else. I do know other words to use to make my point. Hmm. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 10, 2017 8:39 PM MST

As i say.. you are you and I am me.. I see it from a different perspective.. name shaming is a phenomenon where one person uses names to hurt another, to belittle them.. to hurt them.. that isnt the case here.. If I did it to his face, which I would, then it could be called name shaming... here it's just using words to describe behaviour.. and actions.. it's a slightly but subtle difference.. you do not believe for one moment that he is at all hurt or shamed by any of my actions.. and I see it as just making good use of language to describe what i see. I know we won't disagree on this - but it's all just pedantics. I see no real difference between calling him a clown, which you did, and calling him a total idiot, which i do.. same thing.. names or descriptive words.. Personally I see nothing clownlike, he sure isn't funny but I respect that that's your perspective.. 

Re bullying, as a mummy to a daughter who has been constantly bullied throughout her high school years.. and who is now out of school due to anxiety and stress.. nope I've not bullied Trump in any way.. he doesn't even see the words I or a million others write...  and perspectives again but imo bullies don't seek to make themselves look more interesting per se.. they do it to cause fear and intimidation.. to hurt to make someone else weaker.. am I doing that to Trump?? Or anyone else? Nope..  so I love the way you bring forth ideas and debates.. but nope nothng I have done ever has bullied Trump.. I'd love a chance to bully him in real life.. I've never bullied anyone in my life but I'd make an exception for him as I trulybelieve he is evil.. hateful - justice sometimes means giving someone a taste of their own meds...

As you say calling him arrogant, dishonest and a clown etc isn't name calling.?  you don't see that there's no real difference between that and calling him a liar, and a village idiot?  They are all names...  but if you say arrogant etc is ok then I believe that I don't name call then.. I use words that describe his behaviour and actions.. lol therefore I am given permission in your book :P

And for what it's worth I have never thought, even for a second that you are boring.. ever!  Far from it.. you ARE kind, you are clever, you are honest, you are caring and you are committed... lol so am I! I just do it in a different way to you  :P

I think you misread my reply. I gave examples of what I don't see as name calling. There most certainly will be more words than the few I showed, my reply however stands. There is a line between when something is characterizing a person or belittling them. I have no place said you were name calling him, those words were yours. Not mine. I think I better stop here before I get really tired.

For the records, a clown doesn't have to be funny. 

clown
/klaʊn/
noun

1.
a comic entertainer, especially one in a circus, wearing a traditional costume and exaggerated make-up.
"a circus clown"

2.
archaic
an unsophisticated country person; a rustic.

Sorry to hear you are getting tired Sapphic.. I wouldn't want that.. I always enjoy hearing your thoughts..  I never thought *I* was name calling, tho I suspect I have done so a time or two, purely for illustrative purposes :P So I didn't think it applied to me.. I was just uncertain as to whether you thought it did.. it's hard to tell sometimes on here when it's just in black print with no ability to know how the other intends it.. so sometimes we assume that someone means us when they don't.. it happens a lot. 

I did think you were thinking I was a bully.. but from what you say it seems that wasn't the case at all. Glad to hear it, I am by no means perfect but a bully I am not - tho I did say I'd  make an exception for Trump.  :P

I will be honest, I had never heard of the interpretation of clown as being a countryman or rustic.. I suppose that dates back to the court jester times or something.. either way I was unaware of that use of the word... when I looked it up I found a few more..  1. a comic entertainer, usually grotesquely costumed and made up 2.. a coarse clumsy rude person; boor.  SO that was cool to learn something new. 

Well said!