The funny thing is that most of the criticism is the truth like his bumbling lies, nepotism, Russian scandals, fake economy report, fake healthcare plan, fake accusations about wiretaps, hiding his taxes, etc. etc. etc..
If someone doesn't like the posts, they don't have to read them
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 12, 2017 10:42 AM MDT
People have a right to express their views on politics, and I support that. This isn't the first POTUS to be criticized, won't be the last. We are very fortunate to live in a time when we are free to do so.
As far as here on aM, it is easy enough to scroll past negative political commentary, and I generally do, though it is just as easy to wonder about the motives of those who obsessively post so much of it.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 14, 2017 6:16 PM MDT
Well said. I will add that it is distressing for me to see decent people attacked and belittled for their opinion when they are nice enough to respond. We aren't all going to agree but some attempt at respectful discourse with others goes a long way if one is trying to get their point across and change some minds.
There are attackers on both sides, it's by no means predominantly those who post about Trump who are doing the attacking.. most, from wht I see are just discussing news and getting info out there, Oh and there are those who accuse others of attacks... it gets nasty I agree.. I am guessing the intent it to shut those who post about Trump up.
No. I haven't see any intent "to shut those who post about Trump up." I think the majority of the people here are pretty open to a civilized discussion. It's when the "questions" are not questions at all but an exercise in excoriation aimed at anyone who is nice enough to respond, that it then becomes problematic.
This post was edited by Harry at March 14, 2017 5:58 PM MDT
Oh.. interesting to hear your very differing experiences... I've received a lot of flack and more than a fair few very thinly disguised insults and attacks for my posts.... indeed a fair few of my posts have been in response to accusations and thinly veiled attacks.. just saying.. it is what it is.
Welllllllllllllllll I have been *practically* accused of being an obsessive poster.. so I am happy to divulge my motives... getting the truth out there in a climate where some people seem determined to overlook and ignore, I am by nature an educator, so I always want to inform.. trouble is there are always so many who don't want to be informed...and they get mad...
I accept that I don't always word my posts as carefully as I might, I am a passionate and spontaneous type and always multi-tasking... but my intentions are always honourable..
Occasionally I make a joke about him.. as i did today ... about Trump bashing... but most of the time I find his actions concerning or appalling rather than funny..
So that's my motive.. I think others are similar tho i can't speak for them..
Hi DBTD, No doubt there are different reasons folks do what they do just as there are different interpretations of those reasons. What one may explain as a hobby can be looked upon by another as foolishness, (not a comment on your post, just saying). But again, your right to comment as you like is undebatable, though I'm wondering if maybe a stroke of conscience didnt inspire your reply? I would further bring question to what point of one's repeated comments and queries (though as Harry mentioned, some are more declarations than questions) on the same material and little else, does mere interest become obsession? Food for thought.
I can categorically assure you that there was no need for any conscience on my part.. I am curious as to why you would think so. I am a simple creature.. I reply as and when I feel I have something to offer based on the comment or post I read..nothing more, nothing less.. if I don't feel I have anything to add.. I don't post.. very curious as to why you would think I would have a motivation of conscience..
On the other hand I've lost count of the times I tried to engage in reasoned debate only to be accused of being a lefty... etc.. the intent there is clear.. to shut the conversation down.. surprised and curious why this hasn't been seen.. and observed...
I've mostly asked questions, perhaps some come across as more statement-like but provided the other person doesn't start calling me names and accusing me of making up fantasy lands and proclaiming to be an expert.. I can mostly debate merrily and I've even learned a thing or two.. That's MY motivation.. I am a debator.. always have been.. Sure I give as good as I get when someone's playing unfairly or behaving unjustly..
But I don't believe I have shown any sign or evidence of either repetition? Please show me if you think otherwise? I do not believe I have ever been guilty of repeating the same material..truly I don't.. It's possible I suppose that others have posted similar question, but without trawling through the history I cannot know that.. and surely wouldn't be expected to?
Re motivations.. we cannot, as I have said before on another topic, ever know someone else's intentions.. it's stupid of us to pretend we can... and as to when interest becomes obsession.. well there's plenty of diagnostic criteria out there.. not for us to pretend we are mental health experts.. all I can say is that the evidence is clear imo that in my case certainly I am not and have not behaved in any way obsessively.. if you look at my questions, I ask the odd one now and then, accepting some are more statementy...that's hardly obsessive.. And I don't believe i have seen evidence of anyone else showing signs of obsession..
For me it's a hobby, a relatively new one.. I have said before on here that I used to talk about sex predominantly... (saying that got me another insult.. I think the poster said accused me of admitting that that was all I can think of.. hey ho perhaps my biting back now and then is understandable if you only knew the flack I get!) I have been very into sexology for a long time.. but more recently my focus switched to NEWS... if I have an obsession, which I don't, NEWs is my new hobby. .however, since I am a Brit most people on here aren't gonna know or care to discuss NEWs from the UK - I know cos I have tried! As part of that interest and switch in focus of my main hobby from discussing sex and relationships to news and it being pretty much the only thing people on here can identify with - I post about Trump.. now and then. I am interested in politics.. I am fascinated as to why people in America seem to tolerate and condone Trump who here is almost universally despised.. so I ask questions, I make comments.. feel free to look at my questions...
I did take a lot of flack for my middle of the road post... and a clumsily worded one yesterday.. I've come to expect that.. I suspect with the middle of the road one people misunderstood somewhat.. it was Trump related.. I've no objection to middle of the roaders on other issues.. I just believe Trump is evil and have posted reasons why I believe that often, it's based on fact and my opinion of him as a person.. to me those who stand by and are wishy washy in the face of all he has done are hard to understand. . I have little respect for them.. I liken them to the good men doing nothing.. I truly do...so what? I am entitled to my opinion as they are theirs.. I don't understand it .. and I asked specific questions.. trying to understand and learn.. all i got were people losing their cool.. it is what it is..
If i can help any more feel free to ask.. here or privately but as i said no need for me to have conscience as I can hand on heart say I have no need to be concerned about my hobby, or the number of my questions...on trump
DBTD Let me say I appreciate your candor and the effort you put into your response(s) and I love the bloody Brits. Thanks for your lucid replies.
I hope you don't see my point as singling you out (there is at least one more culpable), I respect your interest in conversation. Look forward to further exchanges, as I have no doubt we have common areas of interest.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 12, 2017 10:46 AM MDT
Well thank you.. my candor is always ready willing and able :P
LOL tho I don't accept that I am culpable :P I checked my questions.. 107 posted since I Have been active here.. and of those 33.5 were Trump questions.. I may have drawn him into the debate during the discourse... but he wasn't the central theme :P
I'd be happy to post Brit stuff.. but let's face it no one would even answer :P
You just brought up something that came to mind last night when I was catching up with posts. You wrote above: "those who stand by and are wishy washy in the face of all he has done are hard to understand. . I have little respect for them.. I liken them to the good men doing nothing.."
I won't get into all the offensive things that man had done. We agree on all that. But he hasn't yet done anything seriously harmful to the citizens. We do have a checks and balance system here. He can't pull a Hitler even though many people believe that is what he is doing. No one will allow him to even get close to exterminating people. Just look at all the hullabaloo that is going on with our healthcare. People are up in arms and they are contacting their representatives, which is why it hasn't been resolved. It was an issue the Republicans thought would be the first thing put to rest. The people who agree the ACA (Obamacare) should be scrapped are just sitting back. They have that right. Just as in the UK, we each want our country to do what is right for us. Everybody's circumstances and agenda are different. Just as in the UK, you have your ultra conservatives and your more liberal people, and then everything in-between. So my question to you is: What do you expect the "middle of the road" people here to do? What is it that you feel they should be doing that they are not? Storm the White House? Have you ever had a Prime Minister you didn't care for? What did you do? Do you think Boris Johnson is any better than Trump? If not, what are you doing about him?
Interesting response Harry.. I appreciate it.. responding to thoughts and ideas is cool and what I am about.. so thanks for that :)
You said, "he hasn't yet done anything seriously harmful to the citizens" ok so we might differ on this.. but the qualifier word is probably, yet. And much depends on perspective.. one of my points was always that the reputation and standing of America has been seriously harmed by the presence of what most of the rest of the world believe is a mad man, a dangerous and offensive one.. THat harms America...albeit less measurably.. but as I've responded in other questions.. it does matter.. the world matters in terms of trading, and respect in the international area.. Teresa May said to Trump.. the world needs to be able to look up to Trump.. and right now the strong suggestion was that they aren't able to because of his behaviour... just being honest..
The world is, for the most part, incredulous, that such an abhorrent person, (and I do tend to talk about his personality more than his policies you may notice) ever became prez.. that's not me being inflammatory, or mean.. it's just the truth.. I tend to say the truth.. just many happen to dislike it... so yea I get a lot of flack... Trump has also offended MOST nations in the short time he has been prez.. he's offended Brits several times, re the Royals and re his telling us he'd make a quick and great deal then saying to Europe that they should take advantage of Brexit and steal America's trade from us.. you think we don't notice that?? It's dishonourable behaviour.. I Know people get mad when i say that.. but that's the black and white truth and where other countries have standards they will not trust a man who does that.. the EU's don't like him either.. I am just the messenger here.. but none of us can think that this won't have an effect on America.. it will.. seriously it will - esp in terms of all this money that will be pouring into the country.. that Trump promises...
The rest of the world worries about his warmongering and his offensive behaviour.. if his lack of diplomacy skills cause a war. this very much will affect America... so there are real dangers.. and imo just as you say he hasn't done anythign bad yet.. he hasn'tdone any good either. .and the point abotu the bad he'sdone.. is imo debatable..
You ask about our politicians.. we have never and would never have anything like Trump... there's no way people here would allow a politician or potential one to behave like that and win.. he has behaved offensively, underhandedly.. we wouldnt trust a man like that. we have standards... and he would have failed every one of them.. he has behaved without honour..we wouldn't ever trust a man like that.. his lack of tact and ability to control even his own outburst is unprofessional and DEEPLY offensive in a politician.. So yea i've had politicans I've not been fond of but ours seem much more responsive and responsible to the people.. they'd have been booted out for that behaviour..
Boris Johnson is a joke.. I've said so many times.. the difference is NO ONE Takes him seriously.. it's my firm belief he withdrew from the leadership contest cos he KNEW he was a joke. he was ONLY ever voted in as a joke. we are an excentric lot and so is he .. we laugh at him.. and I am sure he knows it...as i say no one takes him seriously.. hopefully not even himself! We kinda don't have to do anything about him cos he's not our PM... he would never be... he's come very close to losing his job many a time.. he's like Trump in many ways.. but relatively harmless.. just an idiot..
SO to the middle of the road debate.. I never said they could DO anything.. if you read the post.. and many of my others.. I have expressed the opinion many a time that in many ways the people are at the mercy of Trump and the goverment.. I know Z disagrees on this point.. I respect his opinions but gave examples of how we ALL are at the mercy of govts.. my lot followed America into a war we should never have gone to, which the people were against, that France refused to join and which BLair behaved like a lapdog over... it happens.. the bedroom tax... happened.. we are all at the mercy.. as I say.. .imo... SO i have said people are powerless..I don't know what they can do.. and I have SAID so...However that wasn't what the post was about.. it was that I don't get how people can overlook the lying, the evil, the trying to censor the press, the treating people, the intelligence service, etc badly... to me it's like condoning it.. and what I actually said was... that my problem with middle of the roaders is that they dont SAY anythign against him..by overlooking his awful behaviour they are condoning it..so what i said was that my problem was that they ignore and support him.. to me, (and i accept it's just my opinion and i never said otherwise) that's inexcusable.. I don't get.. don't understand how people can have witnessed all these things he has done..and say things like give him a chance.. I truly dont get it..
For that I got a lot of flack.. a lot of anger.. interestingly the question came, or was inspired by, an attack... i said something somewhere and was told that I shouldn't offend the middle of the road people.. so my question was.. who are these people, why are they, if they cannot DO anything about him, (and i accept they cant!) why are they at least not acknowledging the realities and bad things that could harm America..
I will concede you probably haven't read my every post.. so some of what I have said you may not know.. My motive is that I care about America..
There are a number of things you have stated here that we could go on and on about. Personal perspective is an interesting thing. Maybe we will get into those specifics on another thread on a different day. All I will say at the moment is that many of us realize how we look to the rest of the world. I know for myself, I am very concerned about Trump creating more problems and destroying the bridges that have been built. I know for a fact the man is not a diplomat and in the business world, is not known for his tact. He's a New Yorker. Few of us are known for that. ;-)
In all honesty, I think you should know that the few posts I have read of yours actually don't come across that you care about America, as you state is your motive. I know this may come as a shock to you and I certainly don't want to cause you distress but I have read enough of your posts to see that you value honesty. I am only telling you this because you appear to want to understand why people at times, are upset with you. The posts of yours I have seen come across as condescending, judgmental, and bashing us. As I said, I am trying to be honest here with you. What was the point of creating a "question" to tell certain people here that you have little respect for them, include in your back and forth on the thread that they must be condoning his bad behavior because they refuse to publicly trash our President and, you don't understand how they can say give him a chance due to his past bad behavior?
I will ask you to please try to pull yourself back a bit and possibly understand how that comes across to the rest of us. Yes, it's your opinion as you have stated. You didn't ask a question and then wait for an answer before responding. You told us this was your opinion, so it all comes off as simply judging people here.
As far as giving him a chance, we don't have anybody else who is our President. So we have no choice in the matter. You need to think in terms of how you feel about your Queen. That is how the majority of us feel about the Office of the Presidency. We have been taught to revere it. Sadly, we have a loose cannon in the White House but all we have right now is HOPE. The hope that things will turn out for the best and maybe, just maybe, this guy will be able to change the problems that appear to be so ingrained in our country due to the career politicians. So please, all I ask of you is, if you want to have a reasoned and rational discussion, with the hope of changing a few minds, choose your words a bit more carefully. Please don't start off with a question that immediately places everyone on the defensive. That will simply guarantee you won't get through to anyone. This is one of those situations where, the lady next door can call her husband an idiot but god forbid, if I dare call him an idiot, she will immediately run me over with her car. Does that make any sense?
I agree, Harry I think it far more significant to get the contrasting view "out there" than whatever an indignant keyboard warrior might think of it. There is likely someone that agrees.
The anti-American and anti-Trump will always find one person to agree with them and feed their hatred. Meanwhile the rest of America has their eyes on a more safe secure future. They can sit around and pout for the next 4 years or change their negativity to a more positive attitude and join the majority that voted for him. I know when Lincoln freed the slaves half the country was just like the democrats are now, full of hate. Morality and time has proven Lincoln made the only right decision. I hope time will prove Trump is doing a lot of the right things.
And how about this. In a Thursday letter, OGE director Walter Shaub contradicted what he called the White House's "extraordinary assertion," made in a recent letter, that "many regulations promulgated by the Office of Government Ethics ('OGE') do not apply to employees of the Executive Office of the President." Shaub was having no part of that: "The assertion is incorrect, and the letter cites no legal basis for it."
Trump is used to getting his own way and an ethics committee is not something that he has had to deal with before and isn't in his best interest to keep around.
I have to say that I do take offense at being called anti-American just because I don't like Trump. I have more reason than most to dislike, distrust and hate him. I've stated this before and I will state it again. I had the misfortune of doing business with one of his companies years ago. Trump is very well known in New York as a con man. It's why he didn't carry his own state in the election. I don't disagree with his stance on dredging the swamp and a number of other things that need to be changed in this country. The problem for me is the man himself. I know he is as bad as our career politicians. There is nothing in this world I want more than to believe he will do the right thing. However, the fact is, I know he will not. And Louie is right, the majority did NOT vote for him. You also need to brush up on your history. The primary reason Lincoln entered the civil war was not to end slavery but to preserve the union at any and all costs. He felt it was his duty and responsibility as President of the United States to keep the southern states from seceding.
I will further state that I am not pouting. I am generally an optimistic person and rather than run around protesting, I write to my representatives and tell them what I want them to do. AND, because of my optimism, I very much look forward to Trump being ousted in 4 years.
This post was edited by Harry at March 12, 2017 10:49 AM MDT
No, I hear nothing. I don't watch the news on TV. Got rid of cable. Only have Netflix. Radio? Listen to music. I do see a bit of news about him on Twitter. I got burnt out during the presidential campaign.
Benedict Arnold 