Hi Wey, I think I need to give a lengthy response to your remark here. I'm very happy with my life, had wonderful parents, ( papa passed away in Jan 2016) awesome childhood, good education and wonderful marriage and after life after marriage;)) I'm not talking about society talking about me but society talking about society, it was a generalized view not an individualized one, sorry if I was misunderstood.
You wrote, 'My last girlfriend had everything she needed with her family except emotional support. I don't know how parents raise children without saying "I love you" to them' - ok, lemme talk about me here....in India no one says I love you...only recently under western influence, films etc have encouraged people to say it loud. Saying doesn't mean doing, not necessarily. My hubby never says I love you but if I'm down with fever he won't allow me to do any work he will just show so much care ....that I melt. We don't hug too....the first time I landed in US,,...I kept looking at people who were hugging each other....amazed and startled.....but that doesn't mean parents loved me less. All there life parents would work hard and earn and take care but never show it, never demonstrate it, that is the culture there...!
You wrote, 'and how they belittle their child's appearance and everything she does'. But why? My parents were proud of their children, we never did anything to bring shame to them so why will they belittle their children?
You wrote, 'I know in Indian that it's a man's world but here, it's equally our world and women are to be treated with love, respect and gratitude.'
Yes it is a man's world in India, so what? At my home, my mom being a Leo would show her true nature bossy too...but Papa ( like whom I am) was very mild, soft natured.
'You wrote, 'Money will not solve all problems. We need to uplift one another.' Huh what?
You wrote, 'I know there are many problems here in this country, especially in marriage, but I cannot come to grips with the idea of a woman never being independent, straight from parents control to husband's control.' Wey, I belong to upper middle class family, never did my parents try to control me or my siblings, they disciplined us, maybe that is why we are well settled and flourishing, none of us have a drug habit, we are academically and economically satisfied too. My hubby he gives me full freedom too, he never tries to interfere in any way whatsoever. What you wrote might apply to some sections of Indian society, but not all!
Wey, you wrote, 'because I grew up with a very wealthy and controlling dad but he had no interest in providing us anything not essential for survival. So then when he died, just before I was thirteen... My mom was at a loss. She could not manage money. We went from having three houses and 350 acres, along with livestock and all that comes along with a farm to my mother dying while living in a tiny one bedroom apartment about 25 years after my dad died, but the land, the money and everything was gone long before her death. I helped my mother a lot with money but she never could control the spending and was left struggling until death. '
Ok now if this was a scenario in India, your mom would never have faced this situation, family is a very strong unit there, that is why there are arranged marriages too wherein extended families have a say. The entire family comes together to support. My brother, who did double MS in USA, held a high position in Siemens in New Jersey, after Papa left us he went to India with family and lives with mom there right now, he is allowed to work from there. Sacrifice is another name for Indian family bonding.....Sighh......I didn't want to go into personal details but since your comment was in the open I had to write a response too in the open. There is a huge difference among our two cultures and misconceptions are but natural to rise.
You wrote, 'My point is that women must be independent or they will end up being property of their husband.' No, we purposely stay with one spouse, that is our culture. Now the trend is changing people get irked easily and differences do make them drift.
You wrote, 'This still goes on in America as well, it isn't just a foreign problem. Women marry for money either by choice or by family pressure.' My marriage was arranged, both families meet, horoscopes matched and economic, educational financial aspects are considered...I know it sounds business like but since we don't believe in dating, experimenting,...this procedure is followed. No family pressure at all, only if the proposal is liked by the bride, marriage takes place.
You wrote, 'Loving women are God's gift to man and the man should seek to please his wife as she pleases him. It isn't a one way street.' Of course it is not and maybe I'm fortunate I've a very understanding and loving husband;))
You are obviously in an idealized situation, there is order in your life and you came from a good family. I think you and I know this is not always true. The upper-Middle class do have more choices and your life would make most women, who desire to marry, of any culture envious.
People may not say "I love you" or hug in India but when a girl comes here as a child and sees this cultural difference, she is going to wonder why. The one I was referring to was constantly belittled by her mother, although her father was much more understanding and did show love though he never spoke of it. She lived in, and probably still lives in fear of her mother. They are upper-middle class and the daughter tells of their parents unhappy life together. They just stay together because it is what you do and I can respect that but try ways of making people happy as giving of your time and not just money. Her mother would make derogatory comments about her weight, which I helped her resolve the whopping ten pounds she wanted to lose to satisfy her in less than a month. The mother even made fun of her height that she could not change obviously. Anytime she wanted to try something new, from painting to travel, she was strongly discouraged from doing so.
There is spousal abuse and divorce inside her family. They were not born into the upper castes but worked their way up and are very secure financially for the most part. She legitimately fears her mother and is afraid because she has been hit and threatened in various ways to obey and not question. She was also beaten in the school system of India, something that is not far removed from this country...but to slap a child in the face at school is unacceptable to me.
When I wrote it is a man's world in India, yes "so what" but in America women have fought hard to not undergo abuse. You never addressed the part of women getting beaten publicly in the streets of India by husbands and officers.
When I said money will not fix everything that we need to uplift one another, I mean that money is just not going to offer love, it is essential to have money, yes, but uplifting one another by spending a little more time helping the woman when she is down and encouraging her is a must. As I've stated, you seem to have an ideal life, with wonderful family and a wonderful husband who show their love but we both know it isn't typical...or maybe you don't because I know a lot is kept silent, even among families.
I did not mean this reply as an attack on your culture by any means, only parts of it I do not understand and do not agree with the abuse of women under any circumstance. My former girlfriend and her family found out after many years that one of her uncles is abusing his wife and will leave the family sometimes for months in order to travel and no one knows where he goes but he leaves his wife and children without money and so her grandfather is left to support his daughter-in-law and grandchildren. Knowing someone else will take care of your family if you don't can lead to irresponsibility.
You mentioned when you are down with the fever your husband will not allow you to do any work. One of my former friend's coworkers suffered severe migraines, and they are no fun, but her husband would not allow her to miss work for any reason, as among many of the ones in her family and friends, the ones with the most money/possessions wins 'the game of life.
I am most happy that you have a life you are happy with. It is almost like India is the way this country was a century ago in regard to marriage. The dowry was expected, and when the industrial revolution came along, many women went to work and could pay their own dowry and marry out of poverty.
My parents married in 1970 just as things were greatly changing here and my dad purposefully married a woman of a lower financial class so he could have control, complete control. He simply wanted a servant and someone to have his children. There was no love involved at any point from what I can gather.
My grandfather, dad's father, did a lot to help us and it was after he passed everything was squandered. He held strong family values and helped keep the family together. His wife, my grandmother, was never happy with him but they stayed married to appease family.
I am all for staying with one spouse and also do not like the dating, experimenting and such. This is one of many things that attracted me to a Telugu woman. We decided we would be together for life before we ever met, but then something changed after she visited her family the last time we were together. The mother in particular made sure she was in control and the daughter fears her terribly. I am most certain I was found out and she had to make a decision.
Just to be clear, I did not mean this as an attack on your way of life. In America it seems like marriages are a trial now, if you don't like your spouse one day, you get another. There must be some sort of balance. People who migrate here and bring their families as children must accept that they are imposing a new culture on them and many take a different path.
You say there is no family pressure at all during the marriage arrangements but it wasn't the case with the one I knew and do you think there would have been pressure had you decided you did not want to marry for a while or wanted to marry someone you met on your own of a different race or religion?
I know my former gf, her grandmother was Hindu and became Catholic after marriage. To me, religion is first and if a person truly believes, they do not change to appease a person.
With so many people in India and so many different cultures within one country, it is completely unfair to make a generalization and I'm sorry if you feel I did. My main concern is the acceptance of women being beaten, even publicly and one cannot deny it, it is posted all over the internet.
It also remains a fact that some women of India are not as happy with the way things are as you are and want change. Whether good or bad, a woman at 18 is an adult in this country and capable of making her own decisions. That is something migrants must accept if choosing to live here.
I love so many things about your culture, but the truth is I would have never been born in that culture. My mother and father would not have married, as my grandmother despised my mother.
My former girlfriend is a very smart, beautiful and successful woman and I only wish her the best but one of the last things she said was she will just have to live in misery for the rest of her life. I would have done anything to make it work and tried everything I knew to keep it together and asked to plead with her parents but her fear of her mother stopped it. Her dad was a wonderful man from what I know. He did not accept a dowry for her mother. He works very hard to provide for her family. She lives on her own as she has no freedom at home but she told me that her dad would accept me but it is in the past and I still love the people of India. I am destined to be a single man it seems. I have never found a woman who can stay devoted to me and at my age, I am not likely to be finding anyone soon. I set the bar high, probably too high and it is how I ended up spending four years with my former angel.
Even though I try hard to regret it, I can't. We created a lot of things together, some of which are still apparent on her website today. The both of us made a vow to spend our lives together and when that abruptly ended, I found it hard to cope.
She was no longer even allowed to talk to me as a friend. For a woman to go through life living in fear of her own family is not something I understand. I would have honored her family and treated them as my own. Perhaps had I been a doctor, engineer or attorney she would have tried to convince them, but I stayed hidden for four years.
It was a package I received in the mail at her address that revealed her secret but I'm sure they didn't know everything even then. I worry about her a lot and pray she is okay.
Maybe my rant here was a little harsh but like I said, I admire the women of your culture.
I do not admire when someone feels like they are trapped and sacrifices the future they want without at least trying to sell the idea to the parents. As far as I know, her mother stopped hitting her when she was around 19.
I have loved studying about India even before I met her and still love to learn of the rich culture. She and I often compared and contrasted India and America. We had just planned to move to marry and move to Austin, Texas when all came crumbling down. I never really got any closure and I was in great fear she would face harm. I still have emails from where we met early on, before any romance and she was in fear of her mother knowing certain things, seeming sure her mother may even kill her if she knew.
I really don't know the overall picture of India, and neither did she. We were looking at moving there to do charity work and she realized she and her family had ignored everyone outside their own circle and never traveled, so there is a India that she has never known, even tho it was right in front of her.
She now sponsors a couple children, paying for their school and does other such things her parents would not approve of. To her parents, these people are the 'untouchables' even though that is far from a Christian belief.
I enjoy learning from you and appreciate the time you took to reply, I just want you to know I am aware that ideally, the system in India works well, and has worked for you but I cannot turn a blind eye to the bad just because it brings some good.
One think that gets to me is the skin color. In India it is well known that products to lighten the skin is a huge industry. Everyone I meet here claims to be from northern India, often because of discrimination of those in the southern states.
When it comes down to it, we are all human with our faults and I'm not even close to perfect and I know my dreams of an idea world are unrealistic but you seem to live in one and you have been taught since birth that this is how things are to be. There is a lot of good in that kind of order but as native born Americans, we are by nature adventurous and not afraid to screw up. Seriously, who gets on a ship in 1492 and sails the Ocean Blue? Cristo Columbo and all of the original settlers from Europe were probably a little crazy and/or desperate.
We have a new found freedom in this land although freedom must be used cautiously. I love the diversity among us and I love all people. I know you and I probably have different ideas of freedom but I'd hate to think my family would disown me for making personal choices they do not agree with, especially when bringing me as a child to the most liberal part of the USA. You have an idealistic family that probably every person yearns for.
May peace an happiness always be with you and your family.
How dare you Veena K! That is an insult to your mother. I am very disappointed, not get in the corner.... Okmay, all is forgiven, you didn't know. You are a lady.
'de rigueur' I had to look it up, you help me to expand my vocabulary Oz Girl...
I once read of a Harvard Study that learning new words will increase one's vocabulary, so there really is no excuse for being average. If a person can read reasonably well, one can become more intelligent.
I enjoy learning new words and with English being the largest language with over half a million words and German coming in second, that has only half that; it is doubtful any of us will ever learn them all.
I agree.. I hope I don't use big or unusual words to show off, but because they are either interesting or fit the meaning exactly... Or they have great double entendre value lol.. And words are great.. They can be used like a fine scalpel when required :)
Last Tuesday. I was downtown and crossing the street, I had the walk signal. Some old geezer decided to take a left turn, and saw I was crossing and tooted his horn at me. I called him everything but a child of God. if he had stepped out of his truck, I swear I would have gotten my first assault charge. I was in no mood to put up with any BS.
weylon.com 