Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » Folks with guns in their homes are more than TWICE AS LIKELY to be murdered with guns than homes without! Does it matter to you if TRUE?
RosieG

Folks with guns in their homes are more than TWICE AS LIKELY to be murdered with guns than homes without! Does it matter to you if TRUE?

Posted - March 1, 2018
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Responses


  • 10889
    "The only function of a gun is to take (destroy) life." - 2 Opinions 4:23  

    You can't imagine how many times I've heard the argument - "People who own guns are twice as likely to be killed by a gun than those without a gun".  You see, my brother-in-law is the owner and operator of a gun store (he's also a staunch republican, pro-Trump and a proud member of the NRA).  Therefore, at nearly every family gathering, I get to hear how great guns are, or how that they are the only reason we exist.  It's like going to the "church of the gun" ("All hail the handgun!" "Glory be to the divine AR-47!" "Sing praises to the almighty Ammunition; may it forever protect us from the infidels").   Of course, not all family members agree with his philosophy ("the heathen shall be converted, lest they perish in their ignorance"), but they can't have a civilized debate about it with him, Lord forbid that anyone even think that a gun might be bad  ("Heretic!  Cast thee out out of my home, ye unbeliever!").  Our family gatherings are becoming more and more like NRA meetings.  ("Just call on the name of the gun and thou shalt be saved!)  Over the years my BIL has "converted" a good portion of the family to his "side" (even though some only converted just to appease his wrath).  And to commemorate their conversion to the "light side", they received their own great and glorious "gun" ("say hallelujah, brothers and sisters").  Do you know what it's like to be told by a family member (whom you 'break bread' with regularly) that if you or anyone else (family member or not) ever come onto their property without being invited (emergency or not), they will be shot dead?  ("If thou shall not get thyself a gun, nor arm thyself with weaponry, then in the great day of armageddon ye shall find no sanctuary behind my trigger".)  

    So, are these new "converts" now safer with a gun (or guns) in their homes than they were before?  Are they now more able to protect themselves from an intruder, or will they "accidentally" shoot their spouse or child because they "thought they were an intruder"?  Will they be targets for others because they have a gun or will it make others think twice before "attacking"?  There is no easy answer.  A gun is a tool, just like a shovel or a knife or a car.  The only difference is that a gun is only good for destroying life.  It serves no other purpose. It can't harvest crops.  it can't dig a hole.  It can't move a person from point A to point B.  It can't cook food.  We could ban them, destroy them all, make sure every person had one, only allow certain kinds to exist... or any other scenario our imaginations can think up.  Yet, no matter what we do, it will never change the purpose of that tool.   Our society worships violence (TV, movies, etc.).  We teach it to our children (video games, music, examples, etc).  We glorify war and death.  Getting rid of the tool, altering the way the tool functions, or changing rules on how the tool may be acquired is only a temporary band aid solution.  While it may "help" in the interim, it wont "solve" the root problem.   The real solution is teaching.  And that teaching MUST start with our children.  As long as parents, through their actions as well as their words, show their kids that violence is "OK", or that hatred is "OK" things will never get better.  So long as we spend money to see, experience and laugh at violence and death, it will continue to be churned out.  What goes into a person's mind and is dwelled upon will come out in their speech and actions.  Guns, knives, bombs, or whatever are just the tools we use to carry out the thoughts of our minds.
      March 1, 2018 5:29 PM MST
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  • 113301
    Thank you for a very thoughtful and logically impassioned first-person real-life view of what life  with a fanatic gun person is like for you Shuhak. SIGH. I agree with everything you said. Obviously I'm not a gun person. Some will say "guns are good for target practice". What's the point of target practice if not to "get better at" hitting what you plan to kill? You can't practice on humans. That's murder. So you shoot clay pigeons or paper targets with circles on them at a distance. Here's what I want to know and I'm gonna ask.  When Australia got sick and tired of mass shootings they had a gun buyback program in 1996 . Every so often more people turn in guns. Since 1996 there have been NO MASS SHOOTINGS in Australia. What makes Americans so unwilling and apparently unable to do the same thing? I don't get it. Any theories? Happy Friday Shuhak! :)
      March 2, 2018 2:05 AM MST
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  • 10889
    You know, that very question came up just this past Wednesday when I went over to my sisters house for dinner. As usual, the subject of guns came up (my BIL has a gun show this weekend and my sister wanted to know if it'd get snowed out).  My nephew lives in Australia, so my niece casually mentioned Australia's no gun laws.  Foolishly, I took the "side"(?) of there being no mass shootings. The"argument" got very heated ... well, actually my BIL and his son in-law (another gun lover) got heated, I just got lectured.  They claim that while the media says that mass shootings may be down, they don't tell us that other types of violent crimes are up - both there and in other countries that have banned guns.  therefore I'm "ignorant and blinded by the media's false reports".  Then they quickly brought up "examples" of how gun-packing citizens have saved lives in hold-ups, street altercations and such.  (*SIGH*) 
     
    Unfortunately, that is exactly what makes americans unwilling to do anything (and I quote my BIL here) -  "What if it doesn't work??" (no matter how slim of a percentage that may or maynot be).  "Then crime will be rampant, as only the bad people will have guns.  No law will ever stop them from that."  

    I have a weird family.




      March 2, 2018 9:57 AM MST
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  • 113301
    Weird yes. Unique? Probably not Shuhak. It is a testament to your indomitable will that you can  survive them.  SIGH. The arguments they use are canned, off-the-shelf generic standard typical scripted blather They believe what they say is profoundly and absolutely true. And so they continue to repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat and think that we are the ones who don't comprehend. SIGH again. Good luck with continuing on in that vein. I would not survive it. Methinks thou be est a very strong individual who will overcome whatever you encounter. Thank you for your reply. Get lotsa rest, take your vitamins (especially B complex..the anti-stress vitamin group) eat nutritious food, don't smoke, drink alcohol in moderation, watch your salt/sugar intake. Please. Thank you for your reply Shuhak! :)
      March 2, 2018 11:44 AM MST
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  • 46117
    Well, it stands to reason.   Reason is no longer welcome in America.

      March 1, 2018 5:53 PM MST
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  • 113301
    What a pretty picture Sharon! Probably there is a framed copy in every home like there is of Jesus in some or the current president. SIGH. Thank you for your reply and the graphic and Happy Friday! :)
      March 2, 2018 2:06 AM MST
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  • 17312
    It's true - and as often as not gun owners die by their own hand. Firearm suicides are more common than murders.
      March 1, 2018 9:49 PM MST
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  • 113301
    I'm gonna ask why it is that Australians can live good lives without guns but Americans are unable to do so? Probably the reasons are very dark and very scary. Thank you for your reply Sbf and Happy Friday! :)
      March 2, 2018 2:08 AM MST
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  • 6023

    Are you sure about that statistic?

    And what is behind it?
    Is it because if you have a firearm in your home, you are more likely to fight back against an armed criminal?
    And if that is the case, what is the statistic for successful crime committed against unarmed homes vs armed homes?

      March 2, 2018 11:55 AM MST
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  • 17312
    100% of firearm accidents and suicides occur in armed homes.
      March 2, 2018 2:32 PM MST
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  • 14795
    It's rather difficult to achieve if you don't have access to a gun when you fancy having a shot at doing such a thing...:(   
      March 2, 2018 2:35 PM MST
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  • 6023

    That was not the statistic stated.
    I am asking where is the research for the figure that there are twice as many "murders with guns" in homes with firearms.

    And while we're at it ... what is the statistic for other forms of murder, in homes with vs without firearms?
    What is the general statistic of overall murders, in the two homes?  (when ALL forms of murder are taken into account)

    EG: if I were to target someone for murder ... If I knew they had a firearm, I would be more likely to bring a gun than a knife.
    (of course, I'd be more likely to use a gun for murder anyway, since it's the most efficient way)

     

      March 2, 2018 3:10 PM MST
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  • 17312
    If guns are illegal, even criminals are less likely to carry them - black market weapons are expensive and people are less likely to advertise their presence. That's the case in Australia, we haven't had a mass shooting in more than twenty years.
    A knife is only useful at close range, and actually not terribly effective in unskilled hands.
      March 2, 2018 3:31 PM MST
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  • 6023

    "If guns are illegal, even criminals are less likely to carry them"

    That may be true when guns aren't already widely distributed among criminals.
    But since they already have them, they aren't likely to turn them in.
    And given that it's already illegal for them to have them, but hasn't stopped them from flaunting them ... I don't see any reason they would stop doing so.  Especially since the now-unarmed citizens would have to worry even more about retribution if they report a criminal.

    From the many true-life stories on TV about murders ... one doesn't have to be skilled with a knife.  Just willing to get up close and bloody.  ;)

      March 2, 2018 6:09 PM MST
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  • 17312
    Mere possession will get them locked up. You got something illegal, you hide it.
    The stats in Australia tell the story. Gun violence is WAY down, even criminals are only using them in execution-style hits on other criminals (who are also armed), so who cares?
      March 3, 2018 9:56 PM MST
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  • 6023

    I don't know about Australia ... but there are many places in the US where criminal gangs have the citizens so afraid of retribution, that the gangs have no fear of displaying their illegal weapons.  Because they know the citizens won't testify to the police - let alone the courts ... so the criminals are back on the streets within hours of being arrested.  Plus, our jail system is so overcrowded, there is no place to put them most of the time.  >> That is part of the reason the citizens of some cities sued (and won) to get the right to carry firearms outside their homes.

    And since most of their criminal activity centers around drugs - there is no shortage of funding, to purchase from the black market if they have to.  Not to mention they have infiltrated our military to the point that there is evidence that they have stolen full-auto and anti-tank weapons from the military.  (Which our media will not report in-depth on, for fear of being accused of racism due to the gangs involved being mostly Hispanic.)

    For a comparison in population:
    Australia prison population (first qtr 2017) = 40,577
    US population in prison (2013) = 2.2 million
    US population on probation/parole (2013) = 4.7 million

    Bearing in mind that the Australian population is roughly 1/10 that of America.

      March 5, 2018 7:48 AM MST
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