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Is it fair to have higher expectations of people who are professed Christians?

There's a song that I learned in church camp many years ago. The chorus goes "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love. And they'll know we are Christians by our love". 


~

Posted - April 22, 2018

Responses


  • 5808
    "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love. And they'll know we are Christians by our love". ...Nice Song, good sentiment...Love is awesome.
    If we don't have expectations we'll never feel let down.
      April 22, 2018 9:57 AM MDT
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  • 10052
    A life without any expectations. Can you even imagine??

    I expect you can't. 
      April 22, 2018 9:32 PM MDT
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  • 17596
    That is not a good enough reason.
      April 23, 2018 12:01 AM MDT
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  • I remember that song sometimes being sung in mass when I was a kid.

    I think part of being a Christian is setting higher expectations for yourself. That doesn't mean you will be perfect, but being a Christian is more than just labeling yourself. As James says, "faith without works is dead". 
      April 22, 2018 10:22 AM MDT
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  • 10052
    Wonderful, Nevan. 

    I love that. 
      April 22, 2018 6:27 PM MDT
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  • 53509

      Is it fair in whose opinion?  
      Some people will find it extremely fair, some people will find it extremely unfair, while still others will not care one way or the other.
    ~
      April 22, 2018 10:54 AM MDT
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  • 10052
    In your opinion, of course. Your opinion is the only one that matters, right? 

    **I almost deliberately typed you're just to irritate you.** 

      April 22, 2018 6:13 PM MDT
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  • 5614
    It is unfair by forgive, forgive, forgive they act accordingly with zero accountability believing they won't answer for crimes. Where you see forgive, substitute the word love like in the song. How many atrocities they expect The Most High to overlook? One or two? Perhaps none. Their sins reach unto Heaven and is why judgment comes. This post was edited by O-uknow at April 22, 2018 6:14 PM MDT
      April 22, 2018 11:00 AM MDT
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  • 5354
    How unChristian Matthew 18:21-22
      April 22, 2018 1:36 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    I think a lot of the professed Christians I encounter are more Old Testament style. Except when it comes to DJT. They're ALL about forgiveness when it comes to that ba$tard. 
      April 22, 2018 9:11 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    Good point. I have no idea what they expect. I get the sense that they think their atrocities aren't atrocities, but I really don't know. 
      April 22, 2018 9:13 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    I think it is true that "by their fruits you will know them."

    But it is also true that your expectations and beliefs will influence whether or not you recognize those "fruits."

    And the obviousness of those truths is dependent as well on where a "professed" Christian is on his own personal faith journey relative to where he started from on that journey.

    But in my experience, sooner or later you will come across Christians, professed or not, who operate routinely at that higher level of expectations that one is holding them to.

    ....And you may find them in the most unexpected places.
      April 22, 2018 12:57 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    I have had the immense pleasure of knowing some such Christians. And also some who profess to believe in no God at all, yet exude precisely the kind of LOVE (fruits) that I believe the song speaks of. It is then that I learned that a person's religious beliefs or lack thereof don't define the quality of their character or their heart. 

    I appreciate your reply. 
      April 22, 2018 6:20 PM MDT
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  • 2657

     


    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

     

     


    Church legislation on heresy
    ..
    ..
    This legislation remained in force and with even greater severity in the kingdom formed by the victorious barbarian invaders on the ruins of the Roman Empire in the West. The burning of heretics was first decreed in the eleventh century. The Synod of Verona (1184) imposed on bishops the duty to search out the heretics in their dioceses and to hand them over to the secular power. Other synods, and the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) under Pope Innocent III, repeated and enforced this decree, especially the Synod of Toulouse (1229), which established inquisitors in every parish (one priest and two laymen). Everyone was bound to denounce heretics, the names of the witnesses were kept secret; after 1243, when Innocent IV sanctioned the laws of Emperor Frederick II and of Louis IXagainst heretics,  torture was applied in trials; the guilty persons were delivered up to the civil authorities and actually burnt at the stake. Paul III (1542) established, and Sixtus V organized, the Roman Congregation of the Inquisition, or Holy Office, a regular court of justice for dealing with heresy and heretics (seeROMAN CONGREGATIONS). The Congregation of the Index, instituted by St. Pius V, has for its province the care of faith and morals in literature; it proceeds against printed matter very much as the Holy Office proceeds against persons (see INDEX OF PROHIBITED BOOKS). The present pope [1909], Pius X, has decreed the establishment in every diocese of a board of censors and of a vigilance committee whose functions are to find out and report on writings and persons tainted with the heresy of Modernism (Encyclical "Pascendi", 8 Sept., 1907). The present-day legislation against heresy has lost nothing of its ancient severity; but the penalties on heretics are now only of the spiritual order; all the punishments which require the intervention of the secular arm have fallen into abeyance. Even in countries where the cleavage between the spiritual and secular powers does not amount to hostility or complete severance, the death penalty, confiscation ofgoods, imprisonment, etc., are no longer inflicted on heretics. The spiritual penalties are of two kinds: latae and ferendae sententiae. The former are incurred by the mere fact of heresy, no judicial sentence being required; the latter are inflicted after trial by an ecclesiastical court, or by a bishop acting ex informata conscientia, that is, on his own certain knowledge, and dispensing with the usual procedure

     

     



    https://www.ccg.org/weblibs/study-papers/p185.html
     
    www.ccg.org
    Christian Churches of God. No. 185 . Socinianism, Arianism and Unitarianism (Edition 1.5 19961221-20150612) The term Socinianism has been applied quite indiscriminately over a large body of anti-Trinitarian doctrine.

    In 1192 bishop Otto of Toul ordered all Waldenses to be delivered up in chains to the episcopal tribunal. In 1194 Alphonso II of Aragon ordered their banishment from his dominion and forbade them shelter or food. The Council of Genoa (1197) affirmed these provisions and ordered death by burning against the Church. 

     

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06796a.htm  (3rd paragraph from the bottom)

     

    Gregory IX was very severe towards heretics, who in those times were universally looked upon as traitors and punished accordingly. Upon the request of King Louis IX of France, he sent Cardinal Romanus as legate to assist the king in his crusade against the Albigenses. At the synod which the papal legate convened at Toulouse in November, 1229, it was decreed that all heretics and their abettors should be delivered to the nobles and magistrates for their due punishment, which, in case of obstinacy, was usually death. When in 1224 Frederick II ordered that heretics in Lombardy should be burnt at the stake, Gregory IX, who was then papal legate for Lombardy, approved and published the imperial law. During his enforced absence from Rome (1228-1231) the heretics remained unmolested and became very numerous in the city. In February, 1231, therefore, the pope enacted a law for Rome that heretics condemned by an ecclesiastical court should be delivered to the secular power to receive their "due punishment". This "due punishment" was death by fire for the obstinate and imprisonment for life for the penitent. In pursuance of this law a number of Patarini were arrested in Rome in 1231, the obstinate were burned at the stake, the others were imprisoned in theBenedictine monasteries of Monte Cassino and Cava (Ryccardus de S. Germano, ad annum 1231, in Mon. Germ. SS., XIX, 363).It must not be thought, however, that Gregory IX dealt more severely with heretics than other rulers did. Death by fire was the common punishment for heretics and traitors in those times. Up to the time of Gregory IX, the duty of searching out heretics belonged to the bishops in their respective dioceses. The so-called Monastic Inquisition was established by Gregory IX, who in his Bulls of 13, 20, and 22 April, 1233, appointed the Dominicans as the official inquisitors for all dioceses of France (Ripoil and Bremond, "Bullarium Ordinia Fratrum Praedicatorum", Rome, 1729, I, 47).

     

     

     

    This post was edited by texasescimo at August 15, 2018 11:54 PM MDT
      May 7, 2018 5:32 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    It's pretty much expected for people to have higher expectations of professed Christians. (1 Corinthians 4:9) Even God expects more of Christians. (James 4:17)
    Never heard that song but likely based on John 13:35?

    (John 13:35) By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”
    (James 4:17) Therefore, if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.
    (1 Peter 2:12) Maintain your conduct fine among the nations, so that when they accuse you of being wrongdoers, they may be eyewitnesses of your fine works and, as a result, glorify God in the day of his inspection.
    (1 Corinthians 4:9) For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels and to men.
      April 22, 2018 1:00 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    Do you really think so? I'm thinking of one professed Christian in particular, who resides part time at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in D.C. I don't think anyone has high expectations of him, despite his professions. 

    Thank you for responding and here's the song, if you're interested:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEwb51LawAI
      April 22, 2018 9:46 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    I think that those that voted for him had high expectations of him. Even those that didn't vote for him seem to not be pleased with some of his actions and decisions. Don't really know that very many when they think of him, think Christian role model.
      April 23, 2018 6:42 AM MDT
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  • 5354
    Not really fair; just a bit more justified.

    But how can we judge an man who keeps his wife and kids alive through stealing? There are a lot of edge conditions her to be considered.
      April 22, 2018 1:31 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    I think I agree with you. 

    The number of professed Christians I know that are so hateful toward certain groups and even people is utterly astounding. While I no longer align myself with any particular religion, the Jesus I learned about and accepted for many years is completely absent from their words and actions. It does have something to do with why I don't choose to identify with them anymore. 

    I think Ghandi was on to something, about liking Christ but not Christians. I feel like if JC exists, 99% of the time he's looking down and saying "You're doing it wrong". 
      April 22, 2018 9:27 PM MDT
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  • 492
    Yes, David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Fred Fanz are perfect examples.
      April 22, 2018 1:52 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    The first two you mention are almost as murderous as some of the Popes.
      April 22, 2018 2:06 PM MDT
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  • 492
    You mean some of the popes did worse than try to poison their entire flock?
      April 22, 2018 5:36 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Don't think either was responsible for more than a thousand or so people? 
    Untold numbers of non followers with the crusades and inquisition. Untold numbers of followers all to willing to kill and die for beliefs instilled by Popes, Bishops and Priests in WWII and Rwanda, just to name a few. If they could have just held to the Christian Greek scriptures like Christians do, none of that would have happened. 
      April 22, 2018 6:39 PM MDT
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  • 53509

    (non followers non-followers)
    (Popes, Bishops and Priests popes, bishops and priests)
      April 22, 2018 6:56 PM MDT
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