A Mugger says cheating on your spouse doesn't mean you are perverted. I disagree. What think you?

It sounds as if you and your spouse have an arrangement?  

I'm with Slarti on this. If both parties are okay with it, I wouldn't call that cheating. In my opinion, cheating is when you have relationships with others behind your partner's back through lies and deceit, thereby inflicting enormous emotional pain. 

Would you not agree that feeling good about inflicting emotional pain on others (especially someone you supposedly love) is a hallmark of a sadist? 

But what "emotional pain"?  If I have in any way led myself to think that somehow my husband does not like or is not attracted to or does not enjoy other women then am I not inflicting such pain on myself?   If I somehow have led myself to think that I am the most beautiful, sexiest, most popular or fun woman in the whole world and that somehow men can go for only me - am I being quite honest with myself?  Emotional pain is real but to what extent do we bring it on ourselves?  Just as we can hurt others even when we try our best not to. Emotional pain is a part of life and we need to learn how to deal with it.  I "cheated" on all manner boyfriends as discreetly as possible because I was trying to protect them from emotional pain because I knew they could not handle the truth.  And I was successful most of the time. And when I was not it meant the lecture in the middle of the night and the slow emotional pulling away (which usually had already started by then anyway) and disengagement.  Which is a fact of life unless we work on ourselves and sometimes even when we do. This post was edited by officegirl at May 13, 2018 7:48 AM MDT

I was speaking of the emotional pain that (most) people feel when they are deceived by someone they love and trust. Although it does seem to be shifting, I think that most people in western society profess to be in committed, monogamous relationships when they get married. Lots do this without being married as well. If a person believes they're in a committed, monogamous relationship and the other party betrays that, emotional pain will be the result. Again, there are exceptions, 

Some people agree to be in polyamorous relationships, and I think that's perfectly fine, so long as all parties involved are in agreement. It sounds like that's what you and your husband have, and that it works for you. I think that's great. 

In committed monogamous relationships, it's the responsibility of both parties to be able to feel attraction to others without acting on that attraction. If either party wishes to change that, wouldn't you agree that it's proper to notify their partner of this change? Maybe their partner will be agreeable to a polyamorous relationship, who knows? 

Did you ever consider approaching these "boyfriends" about your desire to be polyamorous, rather than sneaking around and deceiving them? Did you mistakenly think that you were the only person who desires a polyamorous lifestyle? Did it occur to you to be open about your preference? I'm just wondering why deception was your go-to response. 

Yes, emotional pain is a part of life. Despite all the examples to the contrary, I still believe that most people don't enjoy inflicting it on others, either deliberately or carelessly. Some of us care about sparing people, especially those we purport to love, as much pain as possible. It's clearly not a priority to everyone. 

Thank you dear for your very serious response to my comments. I staunchly refuse to use words such as "polyamorous" which I think only serve to gloss over the truth. 

When I was still a teenager I thought "why do I need to restrict myself to just my boyfriends?  They don't own me.  Why can't I be with who I want to be with"? Of course I was very naïve then.  But don't you think that sex affirms us?  Especially when we have not learned many other ways to feel worthwhile and good about ourselves. 

We also need and depend on close love relationships to flourish and be happy and for me there was never any tension between the two.  My close relationships were one things and my more casual, primarily sexual, relationships were another.  You know - someone likes you and you get together and adjust to one another and sex becomes really good.  And you love him in a way - but you don't want to become any closer to him because you know things would just not work out. 

Whereas some people you know are good for you so you work on making sex with them as good as possible and you want to spend most of your time with them.  But you still want sex with the others because you like it and it makes you feel good and worthwhile.  All of which I don't think is very strange at all.  When we get with someone we still like other people but we just don't want a close relationship with them.  I'm not talking about being equally in love with more than one person. 

So when someone liked me and wanted to spend time with me I would tell them upfront that I belong to you but you don't own me and sometimes I like to see others. Which with most guys if they like you and want to be with you they think OK.  But in a close relationship what you said was very true - despite what they said they would always assume somehow that I would just be sexually faithful to them and if I was not they would be hurt and I guess feel emotional pain. Which of course I had no desire to inflict on anyone.  And I did try at times to be faithful and sometimes was for months at a time but then I would meet someone I knew and had been with or someone I wanted to be with and that would be it. 

Which was why I knew I had to sneak around, which you would say means to be deceptive which I tried not to be and I was mostly very discreet but sometimes they did find out about it and they would act like I was not only hurting them but myself as well and would tell me I just could not live like that and had to make a choice, etc. 

But most men if they like you and being with you they still want to even when they know have other lovers but what happens is they begin to mentally and emotionally disengage from you and look for others themselves. I never had a boyfriend I could be completely honest with until I became older and most of them, that is until I met my husband, were younger and wanted to be free to sometimes play with others as well. 

I was 53 when I met and married my husband and it was, for both of us, just like from the beginning we knew we were meant for one another and saw eye to eye on so many things.  And interestingly, on my part, was not primarily a sexual attraction but that of friends. And we  became engaged on our second real date it was so right and goodness I had not even considered what it would be like having sex with him!  Gerry had been sexually faithful to his first wife for 20 years before he had what was to him a meaningless affair but the hurt and deception and mostly hurt pride brought about a painful divorce.  Though they really loved each other and still do.  So in meeting me he was interested in a relationship more "realistic" though I would guess he had no idea of what e was getting into!

I just wanted to make our sexual relationship something I could enjoy and thank God it worked. Unfortunately I was so careful in almost giving him a step-by-step guide that he has always followed because he knows it works that he never came u with hos own sexual approach to me that reflected himself. So there is very much a sense that when we have sex it is for me which I feel very guilty about. He is a very responsible kind of person so trying always to do the right thing for me and I think he less considers himself. 

I was never one to go for "revenge sex" and really I was seldom jealous at all until I married Gerry and really had a man of my own.  Then I had to learn to handle it and not take his enjoyment of other women (which I encouraged him to do) as being in any way a judgment against me or rejection of me. Which its pretty natural to feel that way don't you think?  Even if you know its not at all.  Like the way I naturally think unless I stop myself is Ok she has a better body than I do, has nicer hair, a better personality, is smarter etc. etc. so then OK he must like her better than me.  Which I had to learn is not true at all. Just has Gerry learned that no matter how much I might enjoy a couple of hours with someone else I was still his despite that. 

Once the husband of one of Gerry's women became jealous and threw her out so we let her stay with us but when she started trying to throw her weight around in my house I told Gerry to make her leave which he though was unfair so they moved into a motel for a few months.  Although I knew he would never really take up with her (though as it turned out she was the one to leave because Gerry was always trying to do the "right thing" by her and she had no such qualms) I was livid and did start an affair with a neighbor kid I knew was interested in me and yes at that time I was trying to hurt him though that kind of thing I had never done before.  And actually I always sort of had a fantasy of showing a very young man the ropes etc. and it got quite good and after Gerry returned I would have continued it but the kid got afraid of Gerry though really for no reason. 

I think it is very beautiful when people get together and have no desire to be with others.  But I just don't know how realistic.  When we pin our hopes on dreams and expect to much of others or of love it seems to me we set ourselves up for emotional pain - lots of it.  Better I think to accept our humanness and let a relationship stand or fall by its own value rather than impose artificial and unnatural conditions.  Or putting all our expectations on others. Sometimes I have had occasion to be in a courthouse and what I remember mostly is people crying and screaming at their divorce lawyers. 

Sex should be positive.  Or at least entered into for positive reasons.  Which I why I reject the premise of couple's swinging which is essentially negative.  That is if you are willing to risk our relationship then I am too. Or couple to couple if they are willing to risk theirs just as we are then they must be our kind of people.  

Some men I am not so interested in but I like them or enjoy their company or admire them or feel grateful to them so if they are interested I am willing to give myself to them.  But for it to become good I need to mostly build a sexual relationship with someone.   Very seldom does it all come together the first time. In a committed relationship sex becomes about so many things - your house, your work, your family, the kids, etc. etc. so you have to develop strategies to get beyond that to the good stuff.  Whereas once you get something going with someone you like but to whom you are less committed it can be more pure and you are playing off his interest and enjoyment of you so much simpler just as the enjoyment is simpler. 

No have no interest in inflicting pain on anyone but I know that nevertheless sometimes I do either because they are just more susceptible or because of misunderstanding.  Or just because we have different levels and kinds of things we feel comfortable with or not.  So whether we choose to inflict it or not it happens. 

I do understand what you're saying, about sex being a way to feel affirmed. I don't personally feel that it's a very healthy way to receive affirmation, considering that for many men "any hole's the goal" (as my British friend so eloquently says, haha). 

I agree that we all inflict emotional pain to some extent; it's impossible not to. Some are more careful to avoid doing it than others. 

I'm not sure that humans are biologically engineered for lifelong monogamy. It seems to me that some people are and some aren't, but perhaps that is the work of religious/societal pressure? When I've wondered about this, I've also considered how STDs factor into the equation. Frankly, it's not something that I've spent that much time thinking about. 

Humans come in so many varieties. It's lovely that you've found someone who feels so similarly about sex and relationships. :)

True but as an adolescent I had no other way of feeling good about myself - I was awkward and gawky and could hardly think of what to say to anybody.  Sex felt good whether I had any orgasms or not.  So I was able to see myself in a better light and more connected to people and like I mattered.  Which gave me the confidence to try and learn to do other things in life that mattered. 

I'm 60 but I always still get a rush when I know someone is interested in me whether I have any intention of doing anything with him or not.  And when they politely persist I naturally become more sympathetic to them. 

True also what you say about men but I try to be sensitive to their feelings. Some men have trouble with any relationships and have a "conquest" mentality when they are younger.  And I have actually had some men tell me that the first time with us is the best for them because after that it is not about them but about us.  Which I had never even thought about that before.  But - I don't know - I guess perhaps because I was never beautiful or pretty or even cute they never viewed me really as "conquest" material and many wanted to spend regular time with me though they may not have seen me as a serious girlfriend. 

But when I think of how much time and effort so many of them have put into making it good for me I really have to love them and be sympathetic. Its like the more great sex is for me the more I am willing to allow it to sometimes be not so good with some who don't want to put the time or effort into it. 

Lately Gerry and I have been seeing another couple I have known for a number of years.  When we visit them he spends the time with her while I entertain her husband and usually one or two of his friends down the hall.  He is like what I guess young people would call FWB - we are friends and I have no romantic feelings for him but we have often had sex casually.  And the other night he introduced me to one of his acquaintances a few years younger than us and though I had never been together with him before he was good with women and was nice to me and took lots of time with me so I has several orgasms with him and one with my friend's husband but the other two men were mostly there just to get off which in the context of the evening I thought was OK and I did not mind because of the attention I received from the other two. 

We are very vulnerable physiologically as well as psychologically and those are things we need to learn to handle in our lives.  Just as we need to learn to develop other things than just sex and relationships to affirm us and make us feel we matter to ourselves and in the world and have some power of our own.