Have you ever wondered if your religion is a cult? Are all religions cults?

I'm not convinced either way. I don't think a person's religious beliefs or lack thereof define what kind of person they are. I know that for some people, their faith and convictions help them to do good for others, and I think that's awesome. I know other people who use their religious beliefs to do nothing but judge others and be hateful pieces of crap. That's why I'm convinced that one's beliefs about a higher power or lack of one is mostly irrelevant. 

I agree with you entirely about instilling fear and most definitely about choosing your own path! 

Insightful observation. 

Are you asserting that all beliefs are religions? 

I appreciate the question's addressed to OG but I'd say that if those beliefs form the principles you follow or live by then I'd suggest they're your religion.

I don't see it that way. I can think of two lifelong friends of mine who have very different views about religion (one is a pronounced Christian, one is completely convinced there is no God/supreme being). They share many of the same beliefs when it comes to politics, friendships, even music. 

I understand that sort of thinking; I was brought up to think that way. To believe that a person who didn't believe in the same idea of God that I did couldn't really be a good person for that reason alone.  It took me many years to realize that it's simply not correct. 

You really need to look no further than this site to see that it's true, Clurt. I think you know what I mean. 

I'm inclined to totally agree with you.

All I was getting at, to put in terms of what you've just posted, is that both your friends have religions, in that both are principled persons. One is guided or aspires to be guided by principles defined by Christianity whereas the other one is guided or aspires to be guided by principles defined by himself.

No but without belief there would be no religion.  If you don't believe then you are not religious. 

Straight from 'the horses mouth' American atheist site https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/

Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.
Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God.” Clearly, theistic influence taints these definitions. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as “there is no God” betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read “there are no gods.”

TY

1. your last para first -  anyone who declares that “there is no God” is unlikely to assert that there are gods [of any number more than one]. However someone declaring that “there are no gods.” is still likely to assert that there is one God. In fact the Muslim declaration of faith does just that. It says "I bear witness that there are no gods [worthy of doing the will of] except God [the one and only creator of everything that is]"

2. The points you make in your first para are worth making and repeating because the concepts of atheism you say are incorrect are not only held by many theists but are surprisingly vigorously defended by quite a few atheists themselves. You'll often see their posts quite aggressively arguing against the existence of any and all gods.

3. My point #4 in my main answer begins with "Assuming that" which = "If". So I guess what my point #4 above says is valid.

1 'No god' was in reference to what can only be described as a monotheist definition or it would say gods, at least the muslims admit that there are other gods, just not major ones.

2 Gnostic Theists: Those who not only believe their god(s) exists but feel they have true knowledge that their god(s) exist. Many Theist think that their Faith equates to Knowledge .

Agnostic Theists: What the true majority of Theists are. Some actually admit to this as they will say something like “My faith tells me that my god exists so I know in my heart it does”.

Gnostic Atheists: Those who not on do not believe there are any gods but claim to have knowledge that there are no gods. Like Gnostic Theists, they do not have real knowledge, supported by evidence but have such a strong opinion that there is no evidence to support a believe in any god that they make a positive claim. If the Probability is .0001% for example ( I do not know what the true probability is) they say that this then makes the possibility zero.

Agnostic Atheists: What the true majority of Atheists are and have no issues stating such. This means they claim no knowledge of truth but they see no evidence to support the belief.

Faith and Fact are not the same. I have heard the term Hard Atheist in respect to Gnostic Atheists.

There is also a group of Atheists (they can be either Agnostic or Gnostic) that are Anti-Theists. I think the term is wrong because this mean they are against gods when in reality they are against religions. They feel that all religion is a determent to society and should be attacked at every opportunity.

Contrary to what some individual Theists want others to believe, Atheists are not a single group who all adhere to the same stances on every issue under the sun.

3 'Assuming that atheists have principles they follow or live by then we can consider atheism a religion'  'Assuming that' does not mean 'if' assuming means that you have considered the question and made a decision or in this case an erroneous assumption. That really is stretching things, that is equivalent to saying only people without principles have no religion. You may well consider atheism a religion but until you can show me an atheist doctrine or dogma then I say BS to your assumption.

1. "at least the muslims admit that there are other gods, just not major ones." >>> Erm..... really? Their religion is, of all the monotheistic faiths in the world, probably the most strictly monotheistic one.

2. That's a lot of detail there. Perhaps it is all unanimously agreed by academics in the field, but I'm not sure if the man in the street is aware of the differences or can immediately say where s/he or anyone else fits in.

3. If you're saying that it's a unanimously established fact that atheists are people without any principles to follow then I'll accept that my assumption is incorrect.


This post was edited by CLURT at June 21, 2018 9:35 PM MDT

1 In your own words ' "I bear witness that there are no gods [worthy of doing the will of] except God [the one and only creator of everything that is]
This clearly says that there was only one god worthy of worshiping and that he is the one and only who created everything, this does not exclude other gods who did not create everything, just that they are not worthy of worship.

2 In general I would agree that it is confusing but there again so is religion with its plethora of cults, the only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in any gods,

3 Everyone has principles but in atheism they are your own principles not those handed to you by someone who claims to know the will/desires of some mythical godhead. I did not say 'that atheists are people without any principles' it was you that said because a person had principles then they were religious, which means in your twisted thinking that it can only be people without principles who can be non religious. Atheists have principles, atheists are non religious but as you pointed out in number 2 things can be confusing so it is very doubtful if there is ever going to be anything that is 'unanimously established'.

1. You can look at it that way if you want to. All I was doing is pointing out how Muslims [whose declaration of faith that is] actually look at it. Their argument is if god is a thing/being you do the will of, then you're declaring your acceptance that there are no such things/beings - well, except one - the one who by logical necessity is the cause for all that exists.

2. I agree that "religion ... [has] its plethora of cults" but this is where care in choosing between them comes in. Blind following or mental laziness are no excuses.

3. "but in atheism they are your own principles" that's fine. You can call it "twisted thinking" but the source of the principles does not affect the argument and is anyway not necessarily known to an outside observer. If the person is strongly guided by those principles then they are his/her religion. Language recognises that when it validates phrases like "religiously observed routines or principles"


This post was edited by CLURT at June 22, 2018 4:57 AM MDT

Thanks for replying. 

I know that JW do pronounce themselves to be Christians and talk about Jesus. Seems to me that they are a very big business.