How is it fair/just/honorable for the minority to force its views based on religious beliefs on the majority?

Agree 100% on all of it.

Thank you. Did you notice how I made logical arguments without using religion once? 

Well I would not agree to the extent that a fetus would not exist without our existence.  We die and the fetus dies.  What harms us harms the fetus . Yes a fetus is a life but it is a part of us and depends upon us and to that extent is us.  I had my child (a part of me) murdered when I was young. For which I have always felt guilty and lived with that guilt. All of my other pregnancies resulted in miscarriages which you may think of as natural abortions.  I have and will always bear the guilt that because of my actions of one kin or other I never had children of my own.  Nor would I judge or make a criminal of any other woman who decides to have an abortion.  Because that is her business. Not the government's, not law-enforcement's, not the father's and anyone who interferes makes themselves a busybody and seeks to impose their will on her. 

Hi Merlin,

I don’t want to drag this on. I feel I owe it to you to answer your questions.

I base my beliefs from my own gut instincts, research, my own conclusions drawn, and solely on my own. I don’t let anyone else tell me how to think or what to believe. Basically I make up my own mind using logic, critical thinking, and research. 

Im a firm believer just because something is legal or acceptable in society doesn’t mean it’s ethical nor right. Slavery and segregation were egal and viewed as acceptable. We all know, well at least most of us know it wasn’t right. We know how evil it was. The treatment of women for hundreds of years was thought to be acceptable and was legal. Doesn't mean it was right. 

In some countries women are treated despicably and beyond horrific. This doesn’t mean it’s acceptable because it’s allowed.

When it comes to morals and ethics many people disagree and reach their own beliefs. Many people in the countries I didn’t name above seem to think it’s okay, including many women living there. Most of us over here disagree. How does one prove they’re right and the other wrong? 

I was simply making my own arguments I drew myself. I’m right in my mind and to some others. I’m also wrong to others. 

This is the last I’ll say on this topic.


I hope I made some sense here. =/ This post was edited by Rizz at September 13, 2018 7:34 AM MDT

Awwe Rizz~ It's O.K. about dragging me into this.  I did come and answer because we had talked about it.  But, don't worry.  I answered with my thoughts and by choice.  You didn't make me.  You did make sense. :) :) You are a very well-written and nice person who has as a right to share your thoughts, beliefs, and known laws on this subject.  
I truly appreciate you. 
Thank you and see you on another question.

This post was edited by Merlin at September 12, 2018 2:43 PM MDT

Hi Merlin.  I ask questions that occur to me and I have a humongous amount of curiosity about many things. This is among the very many. I ask because if I don't the questions will badger me relentlessly so I ask and then I move on and forget about it until and unless someone responds. Now I do not reply to insults or attacks. Those I ignore. I respond to people who are civil and polite and want to engage in conversation. The moment anyone makes a question about me I lose interest. I ask questions about the right of  people to have sovereignty over their choices. Notice there is NEVER any discussion about the rights men have over their own bodies. It is only ever women who are the target. That in itself annoys me but it is what has been since forever. Women are treated like second- class citizens..chattel. We did not have the right to vote or own property once upon a time.  It is sad that it takes legislation to protect us and when people, including WOMEN people, support taking my rights away over my own body because they don't like it I object I protest I speak up. What you do in your life is your business not mine. As long as it makes you happy and hurts no one it is none of my business. But when what you want affects me and I don 't want it I do NOT just sit silently by and roll over and say nothing. That is not my style. Thank you for a thoughtful response Merlin. Yes this debate will go on as long as people believe their rights supersede the rights of others just as racism will go on forever because at heart some people believe they are superior because of the color of their skin. Those people are evil and vicious and sanctimonious. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They make a huge deal about patriotism and standing for the National Anthem while they cheat on their taxes, cheat on their spouses, break other laws and don't see the irony. Nice chatting with you m'dear. Happy Wednesday! :) This post was edited by RosieG at September 12, 2018 8:57 AM MDT

Good Morning Rosie~ :) 
Our friendship is very important to me and even though we rarely talk these days, it still means a lot.  I do value your opinion.
It is great to see you! 
I'll make of point of remembering to go to your corner.  I get in habits and forget.  I'm glad Rizz brought me over to remind me how interesting and mind-provoking your questions are.  I think a little sharper and harder when I answer them.
Thanks Rosie and Have a super great Wednesday.  It's still a bit toasty at my house.  I hope your air-conditioner is working. 
Hugs and happy thoughts, 

Merlin, I appreciate your response. I understand it is a hard decision for any woman. I do not judge them. I do know one woman who used abortions as birth control....she, I do judge. But I do know that she was an exception. I do believe we should offer support and other options to these women. There are many couples in the world who would love to adopt. And we have many safety nets available to help financially. 

I started out as a solidly prochoice woman. Because I thought it was safer, not for me to decide and didn't like exceptions (ie. Rape, life of Mother) as it is still the same...either it is a life or it is not. 
In both cases the baby maybe removed with the intention of trying to save the life rather than taking it. And these are very few of the reasons for abortion under 3%. 

Laws can not be allowed to dictate my values...laws can and do change. 

Good Morning my2cents~ :)  I like your train of thought on this issue. You have offered a wide variety of angles, reasons, and solutions to many of the blurred associations that are attached to this subject.

Thank you for responding directly and bringing to light some facts and your personal thoughts.  I feel the same on many of them. You are always a women of reason with passion.  
Thank you.  
See you soon! :) :)

:)

The laws these folks want enacted constrain women. No laws about constraining restricting negating the rights of men over their bodies. I would ask why but I know why. Women have forever been treated as chattel...at best second-class citizens. Awhile ago we did not have the right to vote or the right to own property. Now women run for president so things have changed. I understand men wanting to control women's bodies. They always have they always will. But WOMEN getting on that same bandwagon  to He** to attack their own kind and take away their rights? I cannot tell you how much contempt and disdain I have for them. Many of them quite likely use birth control but don't dare admit it. Whatever. Thank you for your reply and Happy Wednesday. I don't see how your using or not using birth control methods is any of my business. Do you?  What makes it anyone's business but yours? Not having access to birth control information and education because it's against Joe Blow's and Jane Doe's religion makes even less sense. I know. No one said it has to make sense. This post was edited by RosieG at September 12, 2018 2:05 AM MDT

All religions are evil I thingk Rosie apart from Buddhist Monks ...They believe in hurting no living breathing thing on our planet...and certainly not polluting it 

Most Women have babies laying down, brought about by a King of France Louis XIV who was obsessed with watching all his hordes of kids being born..where natures way is squatting....
Im pretty sure that nature knows what's  best and doest need MAN to intervene 

Irish Nuns of Wrexford  killed 850 newborn illegitimate babies by throwing them in a cesspit.....How wonderful the Roman Catholic Pope must be to sancition such horrific ways of desposing of so many innocent babies stolen from young single mothers....The Pope and his perverted henchmen should all suffer the same fate and have all their assets Siezed 
Men have no automatic rights over females....we are not their dogs to abuse at wil...
Again ,power and money courrupts and even women succumb to it it the amounts are big enough...

No the nuns did not kill the newborns by throwing them into the pits.  The newborns did die from poor conditions there and the nuns did dispose of the babies bodies improperly. But they were not murdered by being thrown into the sewers. 

How do you know that's true..850 is a lot of ill babies and what was put on the death certificates....

We discussed this before and I showed you a link that you agreed was talking about it. It stated they died and the bodies were disposed of in the sewage tanks.  Not that they were murdered in the tanks. 

That order of nuns is to be disbanded and its assets seized it said in yesterday's newspapers...70% of children died in another facility in Co Cork in just one year...there are mass graves in dozens of other sites as well..
They say they think therecould be up to 7000 babies dumped in other mass graves.....
The death rate in those Nun run laundries was higher then the Nazi concentration camps...

The Nuns starved every young mum and child imprisoned there..while eating themselves like Roylty ....
There are court cases going on all over Ireland....They are the most evil parasites every.....
The Irish Goverment and R/C church is still desperatly trying to cover it all up.....

Only 800 deaths over decades...not even close to being comparable to Holocaust deaths. 

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/woman-who-exposed-tuam-mass-9959924

 The others are believed to be falsified death so the children could illegally adopted. 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bessborough-death-record-concerns-were-raised-in-2012-334106