That's how I feel. 

Nice!

Quote: "And if you are not a JW, you have access to the Son of God Himself (well actually they do have access to Him, but they do not believe that He is the Son of God and therefore do not think He can act as I have found Him to act)--Jesus Christ, God and man."

Not accurate, actually, quite slanderous. Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible (Which is one of the things that you complain against JW's because they do not accept non-scriptural traditions over the Bible)
The Bible is clear. Jesus himself taught he was the Son of God although some of His enemies accused Him of claiming to be God. 

John 10:33-36 (KJV) 

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

³⁴ Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

³⁵ If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

³⁶ Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

(Matthew 16:15, 16) He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
(John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

I don't know why some have such a problem understanding what JW's believe? If you really want to know what JW's believe, just read the Bible or go to jw.org


Who is Jesus Christ according to JW's:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011169?q=%22who+is+jesus%22&p=par






This post was edited by texasescimo at March 10, 2019 8:57 PM MDT

Oh, you should know better, texasescimo---

When I talk about Jesus Christ as the "Son of God," I am talking about the second person of the Trinity, ("The Word") who took on human nature and brought us a new reality.

Not at all the same "son of god" you refer to.  The JW's consider him a god, but not one of the persons in the Trinity---serious error, but then you don't have the sacred tradition of the Catholic Church that the Triune God established to guide you in your interpretation of the bible.

You may eventually realize what a great limitation that is in your attempts to understand the word of God as recorded in the bible.

@my2cents: I noticed you liked texasescimo's reply to me---does this clear things up or do I need to address directly any questions or comments you may have? This post was edited by tom jackson at March 11, 2019 12:50 PM MDT

So where in the Bible can I read "the second person of the Trinity"?
You do know that Catechisms and the Catholic encyclopedia are not the Bible, yes?

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm

Who, then, is the author? The results of recent inquiry make it highly probable that the Creed first saw the light in the fourth century, during the life of the great Eastern patriarch, or shortly after his death

 

...

...

From a dogmatic standpoint, the merely historical question of the authorship of the Creed, or of the time it made its appearance, is of secondary consideration.  The fact alone that it is approved by the Church as expressing its mind on the fundamental truths with which it deals, is all we need to know. 

You ask: "You do know that Catechisms and the Catholic encyclopedia are not the Bible, yes?"---I respond: "Yes, I do you know that."

And I ask you:  "Do you know that newadvent is a blog site and not a definitive source of either theological explanations or or scholarly biblical exegesis."

How about using the scriptures?

(Matthew 15:6) he need not honor his father at all.’ So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition.
(1 Corinthians 4:6) Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other.
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
(Mark 7:8) You let go of the commandment of God and cling to the tradition of men.”

(Colossians 2:8) Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;
(Ephesians 5:6) Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.
(Hebrews 13:9) Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings, for it is better for the heart to be strengthened by undeserved kindness than by foods, which do not benefit those occupied with them.

I do use the scriptures, just differently than you do.

As any good father who has children knows, you "grow" them over time.  If God had not chosen to continue to allow man to develop in time, I also would use the scriptures as a cage to contain mankind, but I prefer to use them as a door through which they will find the "pasture" the Good Shepherd is leading them to.

John 10-9:  "I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

John 10:10:  "I have come that they may have life, and have it in all its fullness."

Christ, the second person of the Trinity, came that we may have life and have it abundantly.  He brought a new reality, and He established the Catholic (universal) church for mankind.

I personally find the JW approach to understanding reality to be wholly unsatisfying---and in a number of major issues, just plain wrong.

I understand where you are coming from. Unscriptural traditions are hard to let go of. 

(Romans 10:2) For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge.

(John 15:18-21) If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.

(John 16:2, 3) Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.


I find it odd that you say you do use the scriptures yet go on to talk of the second person of the Trinity again?

Well, I do certainly agree with you when you say, "Unscriptural traditions are hard to let go of." 

You will eventually (hopefully) realize that much of what you preach is itself just non scriptural traditions developed and held by the JW's organization in this century.

And of course, for me, the "Catch 22" is that the JW's are told to expect to be hated and reviled when they evangelize---so I'm aware that my comments only encourage you to continue spreading your untruths because you take my criticism as being predicted in the bible.

(I will leave that conundrum to God to solve.)

But I do think it important that I correct the errors contained in the JW writings and interpretations of the bible that you post in this forum---(after all, one or two other truth seeking people may accidently read our exchanges). 

Of course, if we were "one on one" (privately) , I would react differently.  I would invite you in, gently ask you questions about your beliefs that you will not be able to answer, and share the internal consistency with God's reality that Catholicism possesses.



 

My above reply omitted a response to the last paragraph in your latest response---there were 3 blank lines rather than 2 between it and your other paragraphs, so mentally I excluded it.

That paragraph is:  "I find it odd that you say you do use the scriptures yet go on to talk of the second person of the Trinity again."

I do use the scriptures, I'm just not silly enough to think that God did not found a church to continue to explain Himself to mankind as mankind became ready after living with the scriptures long enough to be comfortable with the basics and be prepared for a more advance insight.

Think about it.  A triune god in the new testament would sound like no more than another dynasty of the gods the people were familiar with through the Greek and Roman mythologies.

Christ told us to pray to "Our Father"---I think it would be beneficial for you to meditate on the meaning of that phrase.

Interesting that you are aware of and admit that many Pagan religions had triad gods. The mixing of biblical truth with pagan religions has led to where most Churches are now. Hell Fire, Immortality of the soul, Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Clergy Laity distinctions with religious garb and titles, etc, etc.

(Romans 3:30) Since God is one, he will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith.

(Deuteronomy 6:4) “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

(1 Corinthians 8:5, 6) For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.


EDIT:
It is the Bible that tells us we will be hated, Jesus warned us. Some Russian authorities have resulted to torture. Not that they will hold sway with Russia but the European Court of Human Rights is involved now.

(Matthew 24:3) While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
(Matthew 24:9) “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

Also, you keep talking as if the Pope's have some sort of divine authority to teach things beyond the scriptures as if Jesus was subordinate to God when the Bible was written but is now part of a trinity.
(1 Corinthians 4:6) Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” ...
(Hebrews 13:8, 9) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever. 9 Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings, for it is better for the heart to be strengthened by undeserved kindness than by foods, which do not benefit those occupied with them. This post was edited by texasescimo at March 13, 2019 4:45 PM MDT

Fortunately, when the second person of the Trinity became man and redeemed mankind, His redeeming worked both forward and backward in time and the triad god concept was shown to precisely model the nature of the only God---the Triune God of the Catholic and various other Christian churches.

You say "God is one."  I agree---one nature, three persons.  The "one God" refers to His nature.

Relative to your edit:

*  I know the bible says that "you" will hated---I said you will be hated in my comment above.  I suspect your door to door "evangelists" are reminded of that occasionally by those who run that JW "department."

*  Popes have a specific authority when speaking ex cathedra.  The ordinary teaching magisterium---of which the pope is a part---is a different function.

*  You say the principle in Corinthians is "the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.”  Relax, the teachings of the various popes is available to you in writing.

God interacts with us with the scriptures and Tradition---the understanding of both of which are guided by the Holy Spirit.

Since JW's don't believe in a triune God, it is not at all surprising that they do not more accurately understand the scriptures.

---And that is the fatal flaw with the JW's teachings.

Edit: added a verb This post was edited by tom jackson at March 13, 2019 5:20 PM MDT

You know, with your kind of philosophy, Catholic Catechisms, the Quran, Book of Mormon, and all other non-inspired writings are good to go.

(Colossians 2:8) Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;
(Ephesians 5:6) Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.


Actually, maybe you believe in the Book of Mormon?

Book Of Mormon:
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Mormon 7:7
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

3 Nephi 11:27
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.


Bible:
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 8:5-6) For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.


Isn't it funny that you claim that I do not understand the Bible and you say basically say that everything in it means the opposite of what it says and Mormons do not believe in the trinity yet there book lends it support, as understood by Catholics.

You don't understand scriptures. 

Here is one of the obvious obvious warning in the bible for us to avoid the JW's:  

(Colossians 2:8) Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;
(Ephesians 5:6) Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. 

I have no idea why you reference the Mormons---unless of course you are looking for a more satisfying belief system than the JW's.  Personally, if that is what is motivating you, I suggest you keep looking.

I wonder whether as you get older, you will stop trying to convince me that what you say is true (I think pride is the deadliest sin, right?) and instead wonder what you should be doing if what I say is actually the truth.

Re-read your post. Who is using philosophy and empty deception and who is using the Bible for their doctrines?

You are the one that agrees with 2 Nephi 31:21, Mormon 7:7, and 3 Nephi 11:27, yes?


Quote: [(I think pride is the deadliest sin, right?)]
Having seen your post of how smart you are over the years, I find it interesting that you mention pride. 

https://answermug.com/forums/topic/77156/why-would-anyone-want-to-join-mensa/view/post_id/611047

[I fully expected you to be able to relate to my "smartest person in the room comment."  It becomes tedious to sit and listen to boring discussions about multiplication and division in math when you are usually dealing with tensors in n-dimensional space.

I chuckled at your reference to the "roiling sea of mediocrity." Arrogance is offensive (by definition), but it is too frequently applied to people who simply actually know what they are talking about, and it therefore becomes the logical fallacy of ad hominem.
...] From tom jackson March 11, 2019 11:27 AM



(Isaiah 29:13, 14) Jehovah says: “This people approach me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips, But their heart is far removed from me; And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught. 14 Therefore, I am the One who will again do wonderful things with this people, With wonder upon wonder; And the wisdom of their wise men will perish, And the understanding of their discreet men will be hidden.”
(1 Corinthians 1:19) For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectuals I will reject.”
(Proverbs 16:18-20) Pride is before a crash, And a haughty spirit before stumbling. 19 Better to be humble among the meek Than to share the spoil of the haughty. 20 The one who shows insight in a matter will find success, And happy is the one trusting in Jehovah.
(Proverbs 11:2) When presumptuousness comes, dishonor will follow, But wisdom is with the modest ones.
(James 4:6) However, the undeserved kindness that He gives is greater. So it says: “God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.”
(1 Peter 5:5) In the same way, you younger men, be in subjection to the older men. But all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.


I have heard that and pride is definitely a dangerous road to be on, but I have not read in the Bible that it is the deadliest.
 (Matthew 12:31, 32) “For this reason I say to you, every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.
(Proverbs 6:16-19) 

You ask, "Who is using philosophy and empty deception and who is using the Bible for their doctrines?"

You are far too modest---you describe yourself. I think that the JW's have mastered the art of using bible references to facility the empty deceptions they preach. 

Add pride to the list of things you don't understand.  Pride is the deadliest of all, the root of all evil, and the beginning of sin.  The virtue opposed to pride is humility.  God gave me my intelligence---along with the responsibility to form it and use it well and in His Service.  Would you have me deny the gifts He has given me? 

It is occasionally useful to pause and see where a discussion has lead.  I have followed you as you amble over the landscape to no purpose.

Let's go back to my first response to your first comment to me on this thread.  It was "Oh, you should know better, texasescimo---"

Personally, I think we have arrived back at the beginning.

So let's start again, adding one word however:

You really should know better, texasescimo---

Sorry that you are getting tired of biblical answers. If you will not read God's word and listen to what Jesus said in the Gospel's or the rest od the inspired  scriptures, it is kinda pointless but sometimes I just think God's word will help.

(Hebrews 4:12) For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.
(1 Thessalonians 2:13) Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers.
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

On the contrary---I like the biblical comment about those who foreshadow the JW's: “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!” (Acts 7:51).

???? On the contrary? Aren't you the one that said that the biblical answers get old sometimes?

???? Acts 7:51? Who have Jehovah's Witnesses persecuted? Who have Jehovah's Witnesses killed?
Oh, wait, you likely do not know who was being chastised nor what they had done. Was Paul involved in anyway?

You once said:
[I'm always open minded about anything I don't understand---but that doesn't happen very frequently.  I learned in graduate school that it's advantageous to become an expert in something before discussing it.  

Fortunately, that is a lot easier to accomplish than most people think.  Knowing more about the topic than 95% of the people in the discussion one is involved in is not a particularly high bar to get over.]

Don't you think you should apply that to discussions about the Bible? Shouldn't you read it? Shouldn't you try to understand it?