We can kinda sorta possibly try to answer "WHO ARE YOU"? How we can we possibly kinda sorta possibly try to answer "WHO ARE WE"?

How about  being honest/truthful? Could we should we be that? Of course if we are talking about divulging classified information that could harm us that is a separate consideration. How about never lying to  cover yo ur own butt..never lying to harm an opponent/competitor. Never lying for self-aggrandizement or self-enrichment? I think the Dutch who hid Jews in attics and lied to the Gestapo are heros/heroines. For as long s they got away with it. I think the intention purpose is essential know before one decide whether lying is for the greater good of the good or to harm them. If we ask "could be" that assumes knowledge of ability to achieve it. If we ask "should be" that I think is easier to assess. We SHOULD be polite respectful kind thoughtful caring. Some are incapable of it so they never "could" be that. But would it have been swell if they could and then were? Sure.  You have to know what's possible. You can't get blood from a stone. You can't get truth from a stone cold compulsive liar. If we could only know FOR SURE what is possible we'd save a lot of time. I should be more patient. Am I as patient as I COULD be? I have no idea. I only know that I am aware of the failing and seem unable to fix it. If I don't have the ability or talent to do what I should then "could" is off the table. Boy it's sure easy to lose your way semantically. How do we go about achieving? First you have to acknowledge it. Then you have to keep being aware of it and try to change your MO. It cannot happen overnight I don't think. That would be a miracle. But if you focus on it and keep thinking about triggers maybe perhaps you can control them and then change them. Drug addicts do get clean.  Alcoholics can get sober. I don't know if those who get very angry and lose control can ever change that though.Thank you for your for thoughtful reply bw!  :)

I agree that being honest and truthful is vital to all forms of human relationships - perhaps especially when the truth is unwelcome.

The matter of classified information is a prickly issue - because by definition we rarely get to hear why it is classified. In the case of the leaks about the US atrocities in Iraq, and others elsewhere, I believe the public had a right to know what it's own government sanctioned - and the US should be held accountable internationally for war crimes. 

There are some matters of warfare, trade and intellectual property which rightly should be secret - if and only if they genuinely protect the nation's welfare against enemies and commercial thefts.
But governments too often use this ruse to hide dirty secrets.
I don't know the answer to how this could be solved.
It is where law and the fourth estate play a vital role.

People do lie to try to cover their butts, or egos, or wealth and power - and, of course, it's wrong. However, the lying is stupid. It usually gets found out, and when it does only means the person's original errors now dig an even deeper pit of consequences.

Yes, there are situations in which a lie is the morally correct course of action - to save a person, people or any innocents (animals) from harm. Your example of saving Jews is a good one well made in Victor Frankle's "Man's Search for Meaning."

I think my question, "What could we be?" covers your question about what's possible.
We can often do a great deal of research to explore possibilities, and we can experiment to find out what works best.
Of course, we cannot always know all the relevant factors. That is precisely why education in thinking skills is necessary. Many things are possible via analysis, logic, understanding based on emotional intelligence, creativity and ethical reasoning.
Yes, there are times when there is no time, decisions are urgent - and then it can be the best guess based on the information, or intuition or gambling on mathematically worked out probabilities.
All of these approaches taken together can gradually lead us towards improvements in what is possible.

There will always be a proportion of people who are severely damaged and hence prone to frequently harmful behaviours. Part of creating a best possible world is working out the best ways to deal with these people, and while there are proven methods that work, there is no one size fits all solution.

If I don't have the ability to accomplish certain things, others do. I content myself with what I can do, and work hard at improving and doing my best.

You are right. If we have a personal flaw, "First you have to acknowledge it. Then you have to keep being aware of it and try to change your MO. It cannot happen overnight I don't think."
It's true. Any habitual behaviour is hard to change. It does take awareness - constant vigilance - with nanosecond precision. Also, it needs rehearsing of alternative behaviours in non-emotional moments so that we have an alternative behaviour ready to use when the moment arises.
There's nothing miraculous about it. It's called CBT - cognitive behavioural training - very effective. 

Anger can be an emotional addiction. Until it burns out, it provides a sense of power and energy. It can give a sense of being right, which gratifies and reinforces the ego. The ego loves that.
Anger has its downsides. It can destroy relationships. It can turn people off forming relationships. It can create "enemy mind" so that we fail to see another's good traits, or fail to see the problem from different perspectives. It often causes us to react too quickly, to speak or behave irrationally and not in the way most effective to solve a situation. Every shot of adrenaline attacks the immune system, make a person more prone to cancers, viruses, infections and heart attack or stroke.
It also has its good sides. It motivated the suffragettes to fight for women's rights, the black power movement to fight for black rights, animals activists to save animals, greenies to try to save animal species, wildernesses and the planet. It can help protect us when physical danger is real.

We now know that the brain is "plastic" - meaning it is never fixed and constantly capable of learning. Much dementia can be prevented or radically slowed. Even a person with brain damage can achieve remarkable recovery. As long as there is life and health, the brain and mind can adapt and change in the direction of its choosing, effort and practise.

I enjoy these conversations with you, Rosie. Thank you for your thoughtful replies. :)



This post was edited by inky at June 23, 2019 7:30 AM MDT