To whom do you owe the thanks?

  Really?  Does that include any of the people in your life who have been negative to you in any way?
~

I believe very much so, yes.
Those who have been negative to me have definitely affected me as a person and have contributed to my continuation and growth in my life. In some ways, they may have strengthened my character. Yet, that is only because of how I chose to process the negative experiences. At the moment, I'm in particular thinking of multiple big personal betrayals by a very close friend  - -  the multiple public betrayals were very big, the friend admitted the goal was to ruin me in all ways possible.
At the time, I remember not ever wanting to "retaliate" or whatever. My immediate family members were amazed at my restraint. Another friend offered to injure the other friend for me.
That friend eventually sincerely apologized. I've always loved the person, and still do, but because of those huge betrayals, I cannot trust the person anymore with any intimate aspects of my persona, and we don't hang out anymore. But the experience strengthened my concept of forgiveness, compassion and love.





This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at July 28, 2020 1:01 PM MDT

 

  I understand that it’s your point of view. I have a different one. I have two very close family members who were victimized by sexual predators, their lives were irrevocably turned upside down, their psyches are forever warped, one of them, who was 8 years old when it happened, has never been able to have a loving and normal relationship with any man since, and it’s been 4 decades now. The other one suffers debilitating nightmares. As happens with done such victims, there were other instances of sexual molestation years later by a different predator. Both of them have rampant trust issues and deep mental scars.  I use these examples to show that it escapes me how any sentiment of gratitude could arise out of certain types of negative history in a person’s life. Instead of thankfulness toward the perpetrators, my two relatives have experienced self-blame, self-doubt, battles with I-must-have-deserved-it feelings, replaying the incidents in their waking hours and in their sleep with a lot of if-only-I-had-not thoughts, etc. Not once have they ever expressed that they were made better by having survived sexual assault. Not once have they indicated that they were strengthened or uplifted by being raped and sodomized. Instead, they are fearful, damaged, frightened, hopeless and practically helpless people. There was not one advantageous result that arose from what happened to them, either during or after the attacks, to include that no one ever went to jail, no responsibility was ever taken, no justice was ever served. 
  I often hear people express as you have how wonderful or great it is that something negative happened to them merely because it shaped who they are today, or that the sum total of life’s experiences are all valid because it formed their present character. I know of at least two ladies who aren’t that happy for the negativity that was visited on them. Even in my life, I could have done without a lot of the negatives that people or situations have presented to me. I would have preferred not to go through some of the worst ones. That doesn’t make me weak or weaker than a person who cheerfully embraces the negatives he or she has had dumped on him or her, it’s just that I have a much, much different take on the whole subject.
  Now, I can’t dump on you because you think differently than I do, you’re entitled to your perspective. It’s just hard for me to wrap it around my head.  Perhaps the bad parts of your life haven’t been drastic, I don’t know.  I just wonder if you mean that you’re actually grateful for them in the sane fashion you are for the positives.

~

Oh, my, no --  in no way did I intend to come across as if my "negatives" in any way correspond to the atrocities your family members went through. The situation I mentioned up there happened when I was very much an adult, too.
And I am very definitely not grateful for the negative experiences, as I am grateful for the positive ones. I regret coming across that way with my answer.
And you nailed it for me -- "the bad parts of (my) life haven't been drastic." Well, some of them were, I guess - - but, again, not like the flagrant terrible things you mentioned about your family members. I can't imagine the scars they have.

I indeed wish my negatives never happened. I am not grateful for them, regardless of my saying up there that I am.
I cannot, and do not, mean to have come across as if I were saying how great and wonderful those negative experiences have been. I can see why you thought this, though, by my answer and comment up there.

I will now say very clearly that I wish none of the negatives had ever happened.  The bulk of my childhood (aged seven years old) into young adulthood years was as a child of an alcoholic parent. That affected me a lot and contributed to my self doubts and fears I still have as an adult. I wish none of that happened. (Everyone here in some ways can probably see some of my fears - - the second guessing of myself, etc.)

I very much do not embrace the negative things in my life because they'll strengthen me. Geez - - my answer and comment up there come across that way, for sure. though. In fact, I've never liked that expression "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." No, I believe we can grow stronger with a bulk of positive experiences in life. not negative ones.

Sorry, Randy D for that answer and comment up there.

I meant only to say that, with that particular negative experience I mentioned with the betrayals, it showed me that I did get through it all. I got through and came through on the other end of a very bad experience. But, even if I might be stronger in one way or another because of going through it, it does not mean I am grateful for it happening.
I agree with you completely in your take on how you're looking at things in your life and your family members. 

Thanks for your thought provoking response. I hope I've clarified my misleading answer. But I doubt I have - I'm surprised myself at the incongruent nature of my words up there, with what I posted and what I actually intended and know to be true about myself.
Your caring and open reply helped to lovingly slap my cheek, gently knocking my true intent to the forefront  - that I do not lovingly embrace negative experiences.

Well, I'm falling asleep almost. But thanks for the wake up call, so to speak. This all took a long time to think out and type. I can only hope somehow I got through in some small way.
Again, I'm with you -- negatives suck, I wish they would never happen.
And I am very sorry to hear about your family members but do know I am sending them my very best in the late night/early morning hours. Oh, my it is late, my friend. 

Thanks for bearing with me in my uncomfortable attempt here to try to clarify myself.
:)






This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at July 28, 2020 7:02 AM MDT

 

  Thank you, my friend, for putting up with me and for taking the time and effort to clarify what you think and feel. I’ve now found out yet another thing that you and I share in common. When I was 14, my mother and stepfather divorced (to this day I couldn’t say which one of them initiated it, but it was not only long overdue, it had also been brewing for quite some time) after ten years of marriage. My mother slipped into a derp depression, became almost completely dysfunctional, and went from being a non-drinker to a frequent drinker. There were many embarrassing incidents that arose from it, and I strongly believe that what I saw then largely shaped my being a non-drinker myself. I never went through the episodes of teenaged drinking and its empty justifications of “being adult” or experimentation. When I reached legal drinking age, I tried various types alcohol in the past, I have never found anything pleasing, wonderful, enjoyable, beneficial about its taste, and that goes double for its after effects. I have never had the desire to be drunk, nor any other the dozens of other reasons people drink alcohol. I do not ever “need” a cold beer on a hot day, or a “shot” to feel good at a party, or “just a little something” to take the edge of after a long workday, or “a friendly” drink to unwind and enjoy myself. I have never been of the opinion that consuming alcohol defines me as a man or defines me as an adult or defines me as a mature person; all of those are achieved without the need for alcohol as an ingredient. 

  Wow, talk about getting out the ol‘ soapbox and going off on a tangent. Sorry, I strayed there. I think you and I understand each other a lot more than we misunderstand. Don’t mind me, and go on to have a good day, my friend. 

~

Hey, thanks, for your reply, pal. I really appreciate it!

I am, and was, pretty much the same, as far as drinking. I do sometimes (rarely) enjoy vodka and grapefruit juice (probably because cold grapefruit juice tastes so good to me) and a glass of wine in the evening - - but, even then, that is not often at all. I don't  particularly enjoy the taste of wine but it's nice every now and then -- maybe I have three or four bottles in a year. Certain quasi-dark lagers taste sort of nice to me. But when there is chocolate milk out there --  who needs anything else? Ha! Nothing beats that taste to me!

And, like I said up there, as far as drastic negatives in life, my upbringing, for having an active alcoholic as a parent for pretty much my entire upbringing, was still pretty ideal, as far as the many stories other adult children of alcoholics have shared with me, like you. I consider my upbringing rather ideal because I felt love constantly with, and within, my immediate family. I saw my mom struggling to try to not to drink (she apologized after every binge and promised to never do it again) and, if anything, I felt sadness, love and fear for her. And I witnessed, and was part of, our family just trying to deal with it all as best we would. Very few public embarrassing incidents; she drank privately at home.
She did achieve sobriety.

In spite of my being perhaps more understanding of others dealing with their personal struggles because of watching a loved one deal with such challenges, I would still never wish such negatives on anyone, nor am I grateful or thankful that my potential understanding of others comes, in possible part, as a result of living through such pain.
Again, I think my upbringing was pretty ideal, in spite of the challenges. :)

Thank you for the "good day" wishes - - that is always a daily intentional goal. I often need to remind myself to stay in the moment. :) I have a lot I plan on getting done today.
And a great day to you, too!
:)

And I went off on a tangent, too, ha!