Do those who have appointed themselves educators-of-the-rest-of-us-on-how-to-post actually think their posts are appreciated?

 

  Jane S, I concur with you that you have excellent and above-average writing skills, it even appears to be an effortless thing for you. I often find it very pleasant to read whatever you write. Your choice to prefer substance over style is wholly appropriate and commendable. I don’t disagree with you deciding what is right for Jane S. We are all entitled to choose for ourselves what we prefer over other options, if others prefer style over substance, isn’t that just as valid as you being able to determine for yourself what is important to you?
~

Thank you for your comments. I was surprised at how this discussion turned out. I started it as an attempt to use a previous question of Stu's to to let him know how I feel about his comments on content he doesn't like. Both you and Stu made valid arguments and I respect your choices although I may not fully support them.

https://answermug.com/forums/topic/115089/do-those-who-have-appointed-themselves-educators-of-the-rest-of/view/post_id/829931 This post was edited by Jane S at September 11, 2020 6:12 PM MDT

 

  Thank you. 

~

Thank you from my corner as well.

Stalking and harrassing harassing? That implies that we run around trolling people, and that is a TOS violation. But speaking for myself, if I am reading a post or string, stumble on a grammar, spelling, or other error (believe me, folks make so many that they're easy to spot) and politely correct it, whom am I stalking and harrassing harassing? This post was edited by Stu Spelling Bee at September 10, 2020 6:14 PM MDT

The people who have made clear they do not like when you comment to them with corrections. I’m sure you know who those people are. If someone lets you know they do not like your behaviour, you should stop, continuing is harassment IMO.  You can ignore their posts if you choose, you are commenting directly to them, which gives them a notification of a comment. I get that you don’t agree, but that is MY OPINION on the matter. 

If people don't like corrections I offer, they are as free to communicate that directly to me as I am free to express those corrections in the first place. I am an adult and I can take it. Nobody needs to campaign on anyone else's behalf. As for violating TOS, I have been there and done that. As long as what we post addresses issues and posts themselves as opposed to criticizing an individual's character or conduct, or putting someone on the defensive, then there is no violation. You are free to dislike or disagree with corrections or other things I post, but it's not cool to criticize or post anything that puts me (or Randy) on the defensive for doing it. That is probably why your comment calling someone (me?) ridiculous for a tip on concise writing was removed.

I have seen people let both of you know that they do not like the corrections, does that stop you from correcting them? No. And ahhh the poor grammar cop feels like I am making him feel defensive by my comment that you’re being  ridiculous?? RIDICULOUS.  Maybe you will be happy when it’s just  the two of you patting each other on the back for your perfect grammar and punctuation posts, BORING. 

First, I am not the one who judged and removed your comment, and second, I am no more in favor of censorship than you. My feelings don't enter into it. As I said, I am an adult and can take anything thrown at me. I was only giving my interpretation of TOS as I understand them. There is no need for you, me, or any of us to speculate on how others feel or what makes them tick. Also, as I said, I am receptive to any comments about corrections I offer DIRECTLY from those affected. Why do you feel the need to be a mouthpiece?

Excuse me? I’m a mouth piece “Mr. I need to read over every answer and check it for proper grammar and sentence structure” I was answering Jane‘s question, with my thoughts. You‘re the mouth piece butting in here. 

mouth piece mouthpiece

Sure, no problem. You're excused. But you were criticizing my behavior on behalf of others, and I responded. Give it another name if you prefer.

No, I was stating my opinion on what I see go on here and how I see some people react to it. I was saying that I don’t like seeing it. I’m done with this, we are not going to agree here.  I’m not wasting any more of my day on it. 

OK. You are now free to go waste your day elsewhere on the site.

 

  If I make it clear that I do not want to be subjected to anyone’s grammatical errors, yet they post them anyway (either intentional ones or unintentional ones), do I have a right to claim I’m being stalked or harassed by those who post them?  No, I would be laughed off of the site. By the same token, in its main pages, this is a completely open and completely public forum, so even if and when I don’t like what someone posts, my mere statement that I wish they wouldn’t do it carries little weight.  I have just as much dislike for poor grammar as some people have for grammar policing.

  You defend people who are annoyed with grammar police, fine.  Grammar police are annoyed with grammatical errors.  Does one group have special disposition for being annoyed while the other group does not?  So who gets to decide that I’m wrong for being annoyed at another person‘s action, but when I do something that annoys someone else, I’m also wrong?

  When it comes to people whose primary language is other than English, I agree with those of you that I should back off.  I don’t always know in the beginning that that is the case, however.  Once I have been so informed, on each and every case, I have backed off. HOWEVER, for those of you whose primary or only language is English, ¡lo siento mucho, pero no les doy ni un iota de latitude!  If we are so lazy and complacent on the use of our own language that we don’t care how poorly we use it or abuse it sometimes, then I am going to speak out.  There are people who do not care at all how poor their grammar is, yet I’m supposed to sit back and accept it.  Abuse the language and you may hear from me about it.  Along the same token of non-English speakers reading what we write here, poor habits of English get passed on to new learners of the language when left unchecked. (Case in point, many people worldwide think that gonna, wanna, shoulda, etc., are the proper and correct way to both wrote and pronounce those words.  Thanks, English speakers.) 

  Another angle is that if someone posts objections or opposition to “grammar-policing”, he or she is exercising freedom of expression. He or she has the right to say something against grammar-policing, but grammar “police” don’t have the right to say something against grammar errors?  By voicing their opinion against my action, they are saying that I’m wrong for voicing my opinion about an action that I find to be incorrect. 
  
  People have attempted the “Randy D, you should just ignore grammatical errors!”  Fine, if that’s their position, I challenge them to just ignore my grammar-related posts.  No one is required to even pay the slightest bit of attention to me when I post something about grammar.  That’s the exact action that some people expect me to take, ignore what annoys me, so I counter that they should ignore what I do that annoys them. If people do not post grammatical errors, I do not post about their grammatical errors.

  I choose to post about grammar. It’s not every single instance of poor grammar by every single person on here that I post about; there are times I just let it go without commenting. Sure, I’ll admit that it’s a lot, a high percentage, but it’s certainly not all instances. My point is that I choose not to ignore that which I don’t want to ignore. I do ignore that which I choose to ignore. If others ignore in me what they don’t like or what annoys them, that’s one of their choices. They exercise their choices, I exercise mine.

  Lastly, and I’ve written this before: I do not assume that I am perfect, or infallible, or better than others, or mistake-free. I have often been caught in my own litany of grammatical errors, and by many of you. I’m just as human as any other person on here. If someone doesn’t mind what I wrote about grammar, or more specifically, grammar errors, fine. If someone doesn’t like what I write about grammar errors, that’s fine too. Others are going to write what they want to write on here, and so am I.

~

I do not, and will not ever,  agree with your stance on this subject.  YOU are not subject to anyone’s grammatical errors. YOU can bypass reading anyone of our posts if you would like. 

We can use me as an example, If you know I’m someone who makes a lot of grammatical errors, and it’s going to upset you, don’t read my stuff, bypass my posts, EASY. Same way I don’t bother reading people’s comments or posts that I know are going to be overly political, I find that annoying to me personally, so I do not read it. There’s absolutely no reason for me to go and comment on everyone of their posts,  just because I find they annoy me. What fun is that? unless I get some kind of ego boost by ridiculing someone on a public form on a daily basis ( I am not saying that is the case with you, but I am saying that is the way many perceive it).

And yes, I do get the irony in my complaining about “grammar cops” criticizing people, while I’m here criticizing you both, but when I see what I consider ”harassment” I feel no shame in calling it out. Whether it is someone I consider a friend or not.
There are some who are not bothered by being corrected or criticized on public forum, I am one of them, I do not take it to heart or let it bother me. I know that there are a lot that are bothered by it . I think you would be surprised at some of the people who are extremely annoyed by the behaviour and don’t show it on the boards. I know who some of those people are, because they have talked to me personally about it in PM.  

Like I said to Stu in a previous post, you are commenting directly to them and they are getting a notification on that. When you know it bothers someone in particular and you continue to post corrections to them over and over, on a public forum, I personally consider that harassment, I get that you don’t see that. If you saw someone commenting on my posts telling me that they think I’m annoying and not that bright, would you not consider that harassment? Do you understand that is exactly how some people interpret your consent grammar corrections? If they comment to you or in your questions, and they know it is in your nature to correct them, fair game. They can stop replying to you if so choose.  

I’ve seen you come into my questions and correct people’s grammar on posts that are in no way directed to you, I do NOT like that. People who are uncomfortable with being critiqued in public shouldn’t have to decide to either stop posting here or put up with it,  when every other type of harassment is quickly dealt with, lol I’ve seen people get their comments deleted for getting angry about the grammar policing in response to it, how is that fair? It’s not.  

I think you should read KJames post in Stu’s last little “whine fest” question defending the rights of “your job”. She summed up the subject perfectly, IMO.  

 

 

Just harassing, not stalking. Stalking AND harassing is Randy's game. 

(I think you spelled harassing wrong). 

Indeed, not once but twice! Your correction is appreciated.

I think that excessive 'grammar policing' stifles creativity and takes a lot of the fun out of what we do here. I also agree that is can be taken as a sign of disrespect, especially when it is clear that the critique is not welcome.

I agree with you on all of that. Some  people take it more to heart than others. I think it does run some people off the site because they don’t like being criticized on a public forum or like you said it takes some of the fun out of being here for them.  

Excessive grammar policing or excessive carelessness in verbal and written expression, perhaps due to the dumbing down of our educational systems and processes? The chicken or the egg? As I said to Jaimie, anyone whom I offend, however unintentionally, is free to express that to me. Offense is not my purpose in life. As to people choosing to leave or avoid a particular website, I am certain that there are as many reasons for doing that as there are people who do it. While we are each entitled to our opinions, it is neither any of our jobs to track and collect data on those reasons, nor is it incumbent on any of us to take it personally, worry, lose sleep over, or walk on eggshells because of it. But unfortunately, the lack of such empirical data renders suggestions linking this to any particular behavior on the part of any particular individuals nothing but baseless speculation. This post was edited by Stu Spelling Bee at September 10, 2020 10:21 AM MDT