.
One could never say the major religions have been ungenerous Rosie. :)
For centuries they have given, and continue to give us, division and dispute along with comfort and purpose. This was mostly inter-faith until the cost grew too high and churches in much of west had their political wings clipped, but intra-faith has happily replaced it.
You just can't get away from the fact that if you want to avoid an argument then traditional, dogmatic, established religion is best left alone. Islam is in desperate need of a reformation and the last few years will almost certainly be referred to in future Islamic histories as being of huge importance. What we're watching now is an Islamic re-run of the huge political and religious upheavals that infected Europe three, four or five centuries ago.
However much effort and cash is thrown in that direction by the west - to save lives, create peace, foster trade - ultimately, this is something the Islamic world will have to sort out for themselves.
I have little doubt it will take generations to accomplish.
They don't care a fig about religion, they are just sadistic maniacs who enjoy killing people and they think that by claiming to do it in the name of religion makes them look good in the eyes of others, which of course it doesn't. Happy Wednesday to you too, Rosie!:)
Doing what they do in the name of their God must anger Him a lot . Thank you for your additional reply AndyB and Happy Thursday to thee! :)
Thank you for your thoughtful answer MrWitch. On balance is religion a good thing or ungood? Would we have been better off without it? :)
There's nothing wrong with religion per se Rosie. I don't share any established religion, but there is no doubt that religious prompting has caused many to behave with generosity towards others.
The problem for me is that religion and politics have gone hand in hand for a majority of human history. In much of the Islamic world, they still walk hand in hand, to the detriment of millions.
Thankfully, the hold religions have over the population is slowly declining, especially in the west but also in the Islamic world. It still plays too large a part in my view, not because belief in itself is bad, but because the structures in which belief is officially expressed are deeply flawed.
I dislike the tax exempt status. I dislike religious cherry picking for political or social purposes (all too often divisive purposes). I loathe dogma and the underlying statement of 'This Is True Because I Say So'. There's plenty to argue with where established religion is concerned, regardless of whether God exists or not.
On the whole, I would say that established Abrahamic religions have been a very bad thing for humanity and they continue to be so. Abrahamic belief itself I am more neutral about. Whatever one's position on God/No God there is no doubt there are many who act well each day and attribute those actions to their belief. I could debate the veracity of their conclusion, but if a person's behaviour is not broken I see no reason to try to fix it.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply MrWitch. I wonder if more lives have been saved because of religion or lost because of religion? I think that is something else we can never know. I want a logical and truthful answer to every question that occurs to me. Perhaps that is an impossible dream . Who says an answer has to be logical or truthful
? :)
Rosie it is not a civil war between factions within a country.. It is a religious war between Sunni islam vs Shia islam... Iran is a predominately Shia islamic state.. It is a fundamentalist Shia theocracy and it is in a struggle against Saudi Arabia and Turkey both Sunni islamic states.. Yemen is a civil war where Shia Iran backs the Shia Houthis with arms and Saudi Arabia backs the Sunni Yemeni faction.. In Syria Iran backs the Government of Assad who is the leader of the minority Alawite shia who have ruled Syria for decades Iran supplies troops and also directs Hezbollah ( It's Shia Lebanese terrorist proxy) to also fight in Syria for Assad.. Sunni Turkey is the main backer of the Sunni jihadists opposition that includes the FSA ,, Turkey also clandestinely supported ISIS which is a Sunni jihadist faction but now they are paying the price for supporting the true muslims of ISIS.. It's called Blow back.. Pakistan is now facing the same Blow back from the Sunni jihadists Taliban which they set up and supported to take control of Afghanistan..
Horrendous crimes have been committed throughout the centuries in the name of religion and even worse committed in the name of God. These terrorists reflect the god they worship. (1 John 3:10-12)
No worries. I was kinda wondering why I had become Adam. Thanks for answering the question before I asked it SH! :)
Perhaps "They do not want to see the truth of islam" as you and DTT above see it because that will increase hatred against a whole community for the wrongs of the wrongdoers among that community. You and DTT might not see spreading hatred as wrong but many others do.
"So ISIS are True Muslims" and you a clear fan of them.
"One Muslim who is telling the truth" That tells us what YOU accept as the truth. Others may not see it as the truth like you do, of course.
1- I don't think that's what the HQ says, but since you believe that's what it says I wonder whether you agree that "The sin of disbelief in God is greater than [the sin of] committing murder"
2- "Then slay them for it is the recompense that the disbelievers deserve." as a recompense for what?
RG and MW, I've read the interesting discussion between the two of you and there are a few points I could comment on but the one I'd like to suggest a possible answer to is the question "Why couldn't they keep that civil war to themselves as the US kept its civil war within its borders?" I don't know about the US civil war as you do, but imagine if the Southerners found out, believed or strongly suspected that France was heavily supporting the Northerners wouldn't they then regard France and anything French as a legitimate target?
Was the guy in the video lying?
1 - What part was incorrect? Was there another place that Muslims cannot slay people in another verse? Medina perhaps, does the Quran also say that about Medina?
Quran 2:191 Muhammad Sarwar: Slay them wherever you may catch them and expel them from the place from which they expelled you. The sin of disbelief in God is greater than committing murder. Do not fight them in the vicinity of the Sacred Mosque in Mecca unless they start to fight. Then slay them for it is the recompense that the disbelievers deserve.
2- In that particular chapter or whatever it is called it appears to be if 'someone else started the fight' as I said, yes?
Not sure why you seem to be trying to dissect what I said? I think it was a little different context than this one:
http://quran.com/9/5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
I know. But what God do they serve? I thought they were all Muslims SH? What are they besides terrorists? What religion do they espouse? Thank you for your reply and Happy Tuesday! :)
The TERRORISTS.
Who do you think have burned the greatest number of Christian churches? Muslims or Christians?
The answer is easy enough to research, but it is not said often. People do not like the answer. Kinda embarrassing ;-))
Clearly that's true. The claim that is a holy jihad or whatever the crap they try to sell doesn't fly. My oh my. I wonder what their afterlife will be? Thank you for your reply SH! :)
