What's worse Trump for 4 maybe 8 years or the Royal Family for hundreds?

I'd add too that, while some may not be fond of the Royal family ALL they do, (apart from be paid by our taxes) is do good for the country. they represent us and act to promote us..so really, when you think about it.. that's very, very, very different to Trump, isn't it..  And whatever way we look at it, the \Royals are a huge selling point all round the world.. with people vying to visit or be visited by the Royals.. one can hardly say the same for Trump who actively increases alienation and dislike of America.. 
I would at this point, point out that one of the first things Trump wanted when he was elected.. was a visit to to the UK with the Queen.. kinda says it all doesn't it.. 

How dare you? You deny the power and influence the monarchy still has not only in the U.K but also in the British Commonwealth. They are responsible for crimes and atrocities a thousand Trumps are yet to do. What happened to those ten aboriginal children last seen with the Royal Family, circa 1964 in that island country? Is the arrest warrant still in effect for the Queen? To my knowledge Trump has no arrest warrant. This post was edited by O-uknow at May 29, 2017 3:49 PM MDT

WHAT???? sorry i have no idea what on earth you are on about. you asked a question -  i answered it straightforwardly.. and reasonably.. anything other than that that you read into it is entirely of your own making.. i answered it nicely.. 
The commonwealth is an archaic barely used thing.. most, if not all are self governing - the queen is a figurehead.. that's all.. if you believe otherwise then sorry you are misled..  re the UK sorry, with respect you seem very ill-informed the monarchy have almost no influence.. that's a fact.. like it, ignore it or dont but it is so. 

I am sorry that you seemed to have a hidden and rather nasty agenda in asking this question.. i answered it truthfully and honestly.. you ARE ill-informed but if you would rather hang on to that than learn or listen then i must accept that.. but I am happy to say i did not answer with the nasty intent you did.. i just answered accurately.. the govt runs the uk the queen doesnt.. and they haven't for hundreds of years.. we all accept tht UK didn'tbehave well in empire days.. but America is far from blameless in exploiting and interfering with other countries.. and that's more recent.. MOST if not all commonwealth countries were free'd a long time ago, the ones that remain do so by choice,  and they chose to join the commonwealth..  commonwealth means very little now.  sorry if you seem to feel otherwise.. but you'd be wrong on that one.. yes bad things happened but remember we always worked WITH local people and they must hold their own account for sellign their own people out.. and mistreating.. America has had lots of influence in many of these countries too.. there are many legacies of where positive legacies remain and above all testiment to this is that while many Americans choose to believe these ex colonies hate us.. the truth is they don't.. so really you think what you like but i am afraid you are misinformed and that you don't even seem to want to listen and learn from soemone who's here well that's a shame.. i suggest you try to do some reseach my friend.. 

as for trump. the difference between what i am saying and what you are.. is that MANY if not over half of your own people are saying the same as me.. so i am in alliegance with tham.. whereas you seem to just want to be nasty and carve out your own agenda.. fwiw the queen has no warrant for arrest.. 

anyways here's something an american said to me today.. Actually, the majority of Americans felt the same! He LOST the popular vote, and it now appears he won the Electoral vote by fraud.????

I am truly sorry this has turned so nasty.. but i think you need to examine your information and your intent in asking this.. i think that's the biggest problem i have on this site.. so many peopel are just so aggressive with hidden conspiracy ridden or ill informed agendas.. most are nice but when someone asks a question with the clear intent to be nasty and inflammatory.. well that's not cricket

Sometimes the truth is nasty. There is no polite way to suggest that our head of state is part of a satanic ritual abuse cult. Though it may be the truth. Your obsession with civility is very damaging to proper political discourse. 

It may surprise you to learn that many people believe that the queen is a senior figure in the Bavarian Illuminati, an occult organisation working towards world government.

If you don't believe such things, fine. Though don't say that other people are "uniformed" just because the BBC told you the royal family have no power. They would say that, wouldn't they? Nobody is "informed" on such things. 

You can generally judge people by the company they keep. Jimmy Savile was exposed as as satanist involved in ritual child abuse. He was VERY close to the royal family. Embarrassingly close.. It's all circumstantial, though circumstantial evidence seems to come up more frequently than it should by random chance alone.

As for Trump's popular vote loss, that means nothing. It's a called the United States of America. Plural. In a federal union, states matter. A few populous states full of leftist lunatics are not allowed to unduly influence the result. If Californian libtards don't like it, they should sucede from the union. This post was edited by Zeitgeist at June 1, 2017 12:09 PM MDT

It doesn't surprise me that a load of odd people believe a lot of utter garbage.. heck we encounter that on a daily basis here :P But believing something, especially conspiracy theories doesn't make them so.. and that's what we have here.. it's not based on fact, it IS based on a thorough lack of understanding of how things are.. Americans I can sorta forgive for not knowing how much power the queen really doesn't have .. but someone who proclaims as a Brit, albeit with Americanised spelling and thinking, is harder to understand..  

Quote: " just because the BBC told you the royal family have no power. They would say that, wouldn't they? "  and yet again a personal insult.. that's out of order, and you know it.. it seems that's your response to everything, to insult and try to belittle..  that says more about you than me my friend.. 

As to beliefs.. well yea we can all believe the moon is sky blue pink.. but the facts are that it isn't and that''s the problem with these ultra elaborate conspiracy theories, and this one in particular.. that it totally ignores what we DO know..  I am fine with people believing as they wish but they should at least be able to learn the truth.. and the truth is, as you know.. or should, that the queen deesn't have any power.. not even with govt.. evidence is that she definitely didnt want us to lapdog-ishly follow America into the last war and she never liked Thatcher and Prince CHarles spends a good deal of his time writing letters and trying to influence govt and the world and completely failing to do so.. so  unless that's a very elaborate hoax...which is what the Americans would claim.. then i think the simple truth is that this conspiracy theory's as crack-pot loopy as Elvis being alive..  In fact pretty every conspiracy the Americans have ever dreamed up has been proven wrong.. just many people prefer to go on believing it.. and that's what we have here.. a lot of people beleving something that isn't so.. just cos they seem to have this need to believe...  As i say I can forgive Americans not having a clue what they queen does and doesn't, can and cannot do.. 

Quote,  'Your obsession with civility is very damaging to proper political discourse. '  lol oh trust me TrumpZ i can more than hold my own if you want to get down and dirty but if by that you mean resorting to personal insults and belittling then sorry that's not debate.. it's just a measure that the one doing the personal insults and slurs has nothing useful to convey.. we can all scream, shout and swear, trust me although that's not my preferred style I'd be happy to step up to the plate if needed.. but it's not debate, it's a slanging match and rarely will the outcome be useful. 

I didn't insult you. You really need to toughen up. You're being hypersensitive. I'm not belittling your faculties.

I was just making the point that almost all the information we receive is second hand and can't be personally verified. In most real world situations there is insufficient information to draw a rational conclusion. So much relies on trusting others. I believe in keeping an open mind about things I can't prove one way or the other.

It doesn't require a huge conspiracy to completely distort the information the public receives since almost everyone who putting out propaganda sincerely believes it to be true and are just repeating what they were told by others. It only takes a few people in key positions who are loyal to the powers that be.

You did insult me.. and I would hope that you do know it and are just denying it... for that would not be very flattering to you.. You not just implied that my info/understanding comes from the BBC- implication is that it's limited and narrow in focus.. There was no need to do that.. it was a slur.. and it is unworthy of you, and certainly of me! 

I assured you I am more than tough enough to handle you.. and I'd be more than happy to prove it :P   In the meantime, I evidence that I am here, not allowing you to just get away with it, but am highlighting it plainly.. logic :)

I've told you my info, understanding and observations are based first hand.. I've said this often enough, one wonders why the insistence otherwise? An example of this is my dislike of Trump.. i don't despise the revolting man because someone told me to.. I despise him first hand based on his words, his actions and his deeds..  Ditto pretty much anything else.. and it would be insulting were you to continue to insist otherwise..

PS - just incase you didn't realise it.. saying someone needs to toughen up and is hypersensitive IS manipulative and belittling language too.. It's of the ilk where someone says to a woman, 'you women are so emotional' it's an attempt to belittle and dismiss.. If you didn't know that I am happy to help you out with your understanding.. if you did then now you know that someone who stands up to it and calls it out/rejects it... is pretty much the opposite of hypersensitive. What they are is someone who doesn't take the kind of sh*t that that seeks to belittle and manipulate :) 

In the case of the queen and this paranoid conspiracy theory aka illuminati - there is no credible evidence or proof, just the rather poorly researched and worded ravings of people who prey on the feeble minded who tend to believe anything they are told.  There IS however, a lot of evidence and info that discredits the theory..  And what's more.. you and I are arguing the toss but given your Brit status you KNOW she has almost no power.. sooooo

All political opinion has an arrogance to it. When we express political opinion in a debate we are directly, or at least in a veiled way, claiming to be smarter / wiser / more informed than the opponent. Politeness is pleasant though more than a little dishonest.

When you feel insulted you should ignore it, or counter attack with insults of your own. Never accuse the person of insulting you because that implies that the opponent has somehow broken the rules of the game. It's playing the victim. It's appealing for some referee to intervene. It makes you look weak.

The very fact that women are troubled by being called "so emotional" is proof that they are "so emotional". If they ever want to be taken seriously they must stop it. This post was edited by Zeitgeist at June 1, 2017 3:10 PM MDT

'All political opinion has an arrogance to it. When we express political opinion in a debate we are directly, or at least in a veiled way, claiming to be smarter / wiser / more informed than the opponent. Politeness is pleasant though more than a little dishonest.' In your humble opinion eh? Perhaps you speak from personal experience.. however, you cannot assume you speak for everyone.. and I have noted that you do very often do that. 

'When you feel insulted you should ignore it, or counter attack with insults of your own.' - that's an order is it?? And of course only your way is the right way? Here's news my sweet.. I can counter it any way I please and the thing to remember is.. while I am MORE than capable of delivering swear words that would make you weep - experience does show that once one takes that route it rapidly descends from a debate into a slanging match.. And were one to lose the ability to respond with clear reason and dignity - then one is really admitting that they have descended to the level where all that will be achieved is an argument.. my purpose is to debate.. that holds certain expectations that are just not served by descending into personal remarks and insults.. I would emphasise that once you start on personal insults then you are  no longer discussing the issue.. so from that point of view too - it's pointless and futile to do anything that takes you down a path towards hurling insults.. it doesn't achieve the desired result.. 

Jimmy Saville was exposed as a satanist who practised ritual child abuse? No he wasn't! He was exposed as a sexual preditor who prayed on vulnerable people of all ages, including children, but there was no talk of satanism or rituals. I have no idea where you got that from.

The Illuninati comes from a science-fiction trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy
Surely you don't believe that?
For someone who spends so much time talking about socialist conspiracies, you just don't seem to get it, Zeitgeist. The power of the monarchy first went into decline when King John signed the Magna Carta in 1215. In more recent years, various Labour governments have taken power from the monarchy, and the peers of the realm, ever since. The only tiny piece of real power the monarch has left, is to disolve parliament, and call for new elections.

Jimmy Savile's victims have made accusations of satanic abuse. 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370439/Jimmy-Savile-was-part-of-satanic-ring

Satanic ritual abuse does exist. The fact the establishment continues to downplay it to the extent of often denying its existence entirely, is further evidence that the establishment is riddle with it and trying to cover up.

The term Illuminati is centuries old. It's just a figure of speech for a hidden power elite that controls the world. Whether they are actually called the Illuminati is beside the point. The evidence that such a group exists is overwhelming. 

There are many types of power. Just because the royal family don't have direct political power doesn't mean they can't still have massive power indirectly through money and connections.

I didn't make any claims about the royal family in any of my posts on this thread. I merely called for people to keep an open mind.

Now mock me because i don't know the name of the country but when you do I shall have it and put it to your face.

I've no intention of mocking you.. i have no idea even what you are on about.. if you mean aboriginal children then i suspect Australia.. Aus own themselves and have for a long time.. they currently have the queen as figurehead too but again she has even less influence there than here.. rightly so too.. there's every chance they will one day vote to have the queen no longer their queen.. that's fine.. 

As to the queen and monarchy.. right or wrong good or bad you can hardly say WE the people have sufffered.. 

O - may i say.. i am truly shocked at this outburst of yours.. respectfully you are very ill informed as to the power and nature of the monarchy.. but I am also shocked at your nasty tone to me.. we don't always get on sure but this is unwarranted.. I say again the queen has NO say in the politics of the UK. she is kept informed of course but no say.. it's well known she disapproves of MUCH the govt do.. if she had any power she would stop it..she doesnt.. so sorry you are incorrect and this is a myth that i am afraid many americans have not yet disavowed themselves of... it doesnt do you credit to believe something really whacky.. 
please examine your really unpleasant tone to me.. about shoving things in my face.. it's really unpleasant.. and in turn if i have said anything out of order i apologise but you have behaved very unkindly and out of order.

I would also ask you please to use reason.. the queen has always behaved with dignity, she has behaved in a way that sets an example to the country.. and is observed to be doing so.. when scandal happens they respond calmly and in a dignified way.. ask yourself please.. what on earth would the queen want 10 aboriginal children for?? seriously.. she has everything she needs and would not want to attract scandal.. this is one of the worse cases of illogical fake news.. it's akin to conspiracy theories.. now the thign to know about all the conspiracy theories is that.. they are made up... sorry to disappoint but please use logic and reason..  I am afraid you have fallen victim of fake news of the most bizarre calibre..

PS I am off to bed, time difference an all hat.. i am unlikely to see your reply.. i would not intentially ignore you .. tho perhaps with something this off the wall and unpleasant perhaps it's as well for both of us.. I would beg you please to do your research and use logic.. 

Satanists like to rape, torture and kill children. They like to drink their blood to consume their life force.

You constantly talk about logic and yet never make a logical argument. Your argument is an appeal to authority. It's pure intuitive faith.

Just say "I think that's very far fetched.  I believe the Queen is a sweet lady who would never do such a thing". I will accept your opinion, though don't try to claim logic.

This post was edited by Zeitgeist at June 1, 2017 1:55 PM MDT

Yes, well thank's for your info re satanists.. i bow to your greater knowledge on such things.. however that does NOT change the fact that that doesn't apply to the queen kinda makes your assertion superfluous. I didn't need a lecture on what satanists do!

Logic is that there is no evidence to support the whacko conspiracy theorists loopy theory.. simple.. logic.. makes sense.. uses logic.. There IS ample evidence to discount the conspiracy theory.. not that they would stop believing the wacko preferred version even if shown evidence. .that's the problem with conspiracy theorists.. even when shown that factually they are wrong they still claim otherwise.. you can't reason with such people...

And it's weren't an opinion.. it's based on knowledge that I have and you should have, from living here and knowing and understanding exactly how things are.. as I say I could just about understand American's not knowing the queen has no power and is NOT a child abductor ... but a self-proclaimed Brit not knowing is harder to swallow.. All i can say is, you have been very Americanised my friend 

I've been very suspicious of the royal family for sometime. I remain undecided on exactly where they fit in the global power structure.

I have republican tendencies, but attempting to change the system would be very dangerous because it could be used to subvert other things. I just want to let it be for now.

On whether they have power or not, I think it's very important to keep in mind that there are many kinds of power. Poltical power can direct or indirect. I believe they are a constitutional monarchy with no direct political power but massive indirect power through money and connections.

Many believe that they are secret stock holders of the privately own central banks like the federal reserve. If that is true their wealth in the trillions not a few hundred million. If that is true, they own a big piece of the entire planet and have influence because of it. 

One thing is for sure, the richest people in the world (whoever they are) are trillionaires not billionaires. A billion quid is not really very much. It's enough only enough to take the nation out for a few drinks. The people at the top own a significant slice of the entire pie.


This post was edited by Zeitgeist at June 1, 2017 12:35 PM MDT

interesting perspective.. i have no strong feelings either way.. thing is, many Americans seem to not quite get that the royal family are really nothing but figure heads.. they have no power, they are ceremonial and really are mainly for show.. foreign countries like to visit them and be visited by them.. figureheads.. so really it doesn't much matter who..