Discussion»Questions»Life and Society» The Boy Scouts of America will be allowing girls to join and even attain the rank of EAGLE SCOUT. Your thoughts?
It's going to make those overnight camp-outs a LOT more interesting, and a LOT more fun!
Doing that's going to make Cub Scouts mad though as it will remove Brownies from the desert menu.
This post was edited by Salt and Red Pepper at October 11, 2017 2:43 PM MDT
They just as well take the step. The BSA stopped being an organization designed to develop the hearts, minds and character of young men many years ago. As a former scout who has watched the BSA gradually go down hill, I really do not care what they do. With the mission abandoned, they are as useful as a tuxedo on a hog.
I'm surprised this is new news. The troops I've known have allowed girls in for years. I knew several girls growing up who were in Boy Scouts. It never changed the nature of the group. The girls who wanted to join were very tomboyish and they held their own. I don't recall there being any kind of issue. They were treated like one of the boys.
As far as camp-outs go, they are now creating gender-specific dens, so there will actually be official gender segregation. That's new. The girls I knew who participated slept alongside the boys. So, perhaps that's the biggest change.
It's also worth noting that women can take leadership roles- den mothers. If the women can lead and teach, then why wouldn't girls be allowed in? Not exactly a good 'ol boys club.
Perhaps if Girl Scouts mirrored Boy Scouts, it wouldn't be an issue, but it doesn't. I did Girl Scouts, and we played music, sang, and did girly crap. I hated it. I wanted to be hiking, building fires, and learning survival stuff, not selling over-priced cookies. Bah. With no true mirror experience for girls, the concept of a boys-only group is antiquated. I wouldn't care if they kept it gender-specific, provided the girls had the same opportunity.
The other aspect of this is that we're in a society learning to accept trans people. What of the girl who lives as a boy or the boy who lives as a girl? They almost have to eliminate gender barriers to keep up with the times.
Creating "gender-specific" dens for "official" gender segregation? (Isn't being a segregationist racist? I think I read that somewhere.) Now there's an idea. We could call the distaff dens the "Girls", and the male dens the "Boys". Hey, wait . . .
And then there's the annual Jamboree, or Camp-o-ree (don't remember what it was called) when ALL the "dens" in an area got together to compete and camp out for several nights. How's that going to be handled?
By the way, are the boys still permitted to dress in full uniform? I remember that included a Campmaster (horror of horrors) camping knife that hung from a belt clip.
This post was edited by Salt and Red Pepper at October 11, 2017 2:50 PM MDT
I think you missed my point. This has been going on for years and has been a non-issue. Historically, the boys and girls have slept in tents in the same area. Now, with the girls being split into separate dens, they'll sleep in a different area. So, it'll work exactly like it has been working, except the girls will set up camp in another area.
The knife is an earned privilege. It is not part of the uniform.
So which troop, or troops are you referring to? You know, the ones that are apparently ignoring the BSA's rules. Or can you provide an "official" BSA reference to the relaxing of the "no girl" policy? (Or perhaps you're even thinking of another similar organization like Campfire?)
But I seriously doubt that you can provide that reference because since the Boy Scouts were founded it has been, and continues to be "standing policy" to only admit boys into the organization. So I don't think it has actually been "going on for years", certainly not officially. And it would appear to be a big deal unless you don't consider lawsuits that go all the way to State Supreme Courts to be big deals. For example, in 1995 when someone tried this little maneuver, the one to have little Suzi mingle with the boys, the California Supreme Court upheld the BSA's Right to make their own membership rules and keep females out of the organization. And again, in 2015 an all distaff troop was formed in Northern California. They made a request for BSA membership that was summarily rejected. So it appears that the ladies are still not welcome to join at this time contrary to what you claim.
Unfortunately though the BSA appears to be breaking down that long-standing tradition next year. IMHO that's going to destroy a long-standing tradition and, ultimately. a once-fine organization when that change is implemented. And it's all due to declining membership it seems, follow the money. What makes this newsworthy is the fact that changing their long-standing policy to allow girls to join is completely new for the Boy Scouts, at least officially. And when I say new, check the dateline on this recent article in the New York Times.
And if you don't think that the boys and the girls will be "co-mingling" on those future co-ed camping trips I can get you a great deal on a certain bridge spanning the East River between NYC and Brooklyn. Can't wait to see BSA named as a liable third party in some future paternity suit, or worse, in an STD transmission law suit. The only saving grace there is that "the left" has pretty much emasculated young males these days so the "urges" probably won't be there with them. Can't make that observation for the girls these days though . . .
And speaking of emasculating the boys these days, when the H was that little change made, the one about the knife being an "earned privilege", and by whom? Carrying that trusty Campmaster knife was, and should remain a responsibility. It was previously considered a standard part of even the Cub Scout uniform (not required in my days in the Scouts, but certainly expected)? It was even a necessity to earn some of the various Merit Badges. Even most of the ladies I know actually carry a pen or pocket knife these days.
So it would appear that it's you that's ignoring the point, the actual facts; not me.
Wow. I'm not quite sure what your deal is, but I never said it was an official policy to admit girls. I said that the troops I know admit girls. So, without providing information that identifies me personally, the best I can tell you is that several Phoenix-area troops have been admitting girls for several years. Maybe it's a silent policy. Maybe they've been breaking the Boy Scout rules. I don't know and I don't care. It's not relevant to my experience or statement.
And, I never said the kids wouldn't comingle. I said they presently sleep in the same spaces in the troops I know of. Now, with there being different dens for boys and girls, they will be split apart. So, in my mind, that reduces the likelihood of issues. Again, this is based on the fact that they already admit girls into some of the troops here.
I don't know when carrying a knife became a privilege. I wasn't privy to BSA happenings until about a decade ago, at which time, my eldest had to earn a whittling chip to carry his knife. If any of the boys in the den were caught misusing their knives, their whittling chip was taken, and they had to give up their knives. As far as I can tell, that's perfectly in alignment with BSA values. The boys had to prove they were responsible with knives in order to carry them. Same with axes. You learn the skill. You get the badge and card. You behave in a mature manner. You carry the knife.
My "deal" is I don't suffer fools gladly. And you seem to be doing a LOT of back-peddling and shifting of facts, almost like a politician. (You should run for public office.)
Lets start with just which troops that you know of that do admit girls in defiance of BSA "official" policy. I've asked that, and you've said that you know of some (in the Phoenix area) but no troop numbers or names referenced. And what the he** is up with that anyhow? If that is true then those troops should have been kicked out of the BSA back when they first defied the National policy. But now their outright defiance of the BSA rules (and their respective charters) is setting a fine example for those boys and girls, one that says that it's OK to ignore the rules if they don't like them. (Maybe they're just "suggestions", not really rules, huh?) That's a moral issue that shows the real integrity of those particular troops (and the national organization if they're savvy to it). I wonder how, later on in life, those kids will be able to tell which "rules" are to be respected and which are OK to ignore. (Scouting is supposed to be a venue to build respect and integrity, not just another "after school" activity to keep the kids out of a busy parent's hair for a couple of hours.) although not so much anymore it seems.given that "fine" example being set for them? It's a puzzlement, foe sure. If you can't see that then it speaks to your integrity.
As to the co-mingling . . . just thinking back to when I was that age. It all boils down to physical distance to the opposite sex and potential opportunity. But what the heck? Perhaps the Scouts now have a Condom Usage Merit Badge that has to be earned and that will present the perfect opportunity . . .
The (apparently) new knife rules are a perfect representation of circular reasoning. Are the Scouts now afraid that a game of Mumbly Peg is going to go south and someone's going to lose a toe without immediate adult supervision? It's almost like telling the kids they can't go anywhere near the water until they earn their Swimming Merit Badge even if they already know how to swim like a fish.
lol I have not changed my opinion on anything. Not even a little. I'm not giving up specifics on which troops I know because it will allow virtually anyone to identify me and my family. And, the troops and names really don't matter. I was very clear from the start that I was speaking from personal experience. You don't have to believe me. I couldn't care less. Moreover, you can knock modern-day scouting all you want. I'm indifferent.
It was news to me JA. I know nothing about the organization. My son was in Little League growing up, not Boy Scouts. Thank you for your comprehensive and very informative reply. I appreciate it. Happy Thursday! :)
They'll just have to drop the word "boy" from the title. Scouts Australia has been coed for years, my daughter was a cub, then a scout. Girl Guides didn't interest her, too tame. Before anybody screams, dens will still be segregated - and Venturers has been coed forever. Those kids are 14-17, ie hormones on the hoof. Nobody complained.
The battle was lost when they accepted government backing. That eventually forced them to let gays in, and that is when they lost the battle. It doesn't matter what they do now.
This post was edited by Salt and Red Pepper at October 11, 2017 2:43 PM MDT
Benedict Arnold 