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O-uknow

"Forgive, forgive, forgive"? If all is forgiven why is the Lord coming back to JUDGE?

Paul was something else.

Posted - April 8, 2018
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Responses


  • 10662
    Because some people refuse to accept forgivness.  They're too stubborn to admit they were wrong. 
      April 8, 2018 3:04 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    When God judges, He is simply removing all doubt as to the proper understanding of what is real.     

    For example, God is either triune or He is not.

    How can one "live forever" without knowing the nature of that and the rest of reality?

    We man never be able to comprehend the infinite nature of God, but we are reasonable conversant with the concept of "one" and "three."
      April 8, 2018 3:04 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    According to the Bible, God is one.
    (Romans 3:30) Since God is one, he will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith.
    (Deuteronomy 6:4) “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
    (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
    (Ephesians 4:6) one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
    The strange, nameless, hell fire torturing triune God wasn't invented until the 4th century.
    (Hebrews 13:8, 9) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever. 9 Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings, for it is better for the heart to be strengthened by undeserved kindness than by foods, which do not benefit those occupied with them.
    2 Peter 2:1-3) However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words (Like triune, trinity). But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping.
    (1 Timothy 4:1-3) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.
    (Italics in red mine. Thought I should clarify as I know you are not likely to look it up in a Bible.)





    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm


    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Athanasian Creed
    The Athanasian Creed. Help support New Advent and get the full contents of this website as an instant download. Includes the Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers ...

     

     

    At various points the author calls attention to the penalty incurred by those who refuse to accept any of the articles therein set down.

     

    The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible

     

    So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

     

    So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal

     

    Who, then, is the author? The results of recent inquiry make it highly probable that the Creed first saw the light in the fourth century, during the life of the great Eastern patriarch, or shortly after his death

     

    The "damnatory", or "minatory clauses", are the pronouncements contained in the symbol, of the penalties which follow the rejection of what is there proposed for our belief. It opens with one of them: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith". The same is expressed in the verses beginning: "Furthermore, it is necessary" etc., and "For the right Faith is" etc., and finally in the concluding verse: "This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved". Just as the Creed states in a very plain and precise way what the Catholic Faith is concerning the important doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation, so it asserts with equal plainness and precision what will happen to those who do not faithfully and steadfastly believe in these revealed truths..

    From a dogmatic standpoint, the merely historical question of the authorship of the Creed, or of the time it made its appearance, is of secondary consideration.  The fact alone that it is approved by the Church as expressing its mind on the fundamental truths with which it deals, is all we need to know. 

      April 9, 2018 7:35 AM MDT
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  • 34435
    Sometimes judgement is positive. "Well done, faithful servant"
    We must agree to accept that forgiveness.
      April 8, 2018 3:10 PM MDT
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  • 2658
    Far too many ask for forgiveness but are not sincere.  God says that when you ask him to forgive you with sincere hearts that He is faithful to forgive.

    He knows what evil if any lurks within the heart and are to be judged on same... This post was edited by Beans/SilentGeneration at April 9, 2018 7:44 AM MDT
      April 8, 2018 3:56 PM MDT
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  • When in doubt, go by what Jesus said.
      April 8, 2018 4:18 PM MDT
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  • 5835
    Nothing is forgiven. The book of Romans carefully explains that. You either believe and are saved or you don't believe and are lost. 

    The only judgment for Christians is the "bema" of Christ. The "bema" was the judgment seat of the original Olympic games where prizes were awarded.
      April 8, 2018 5:47 PM MDT
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  • 10662
    I agree that one either believes (on Christ) and is saved or doesn't believe (on Christ) and is lost.   However, you've intrigued me by saying, "nothing is forgiven".  Please elaborate.  
      April 8, 2018 6:25 PM MDT
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  • 5835
    It is not reliable to let people tell you what the bible says. Many people will make up stuff because they don't know what it says, and many will make up stuff because they wish it would not say what it says. You just have to read it for yourself. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don't have to believe anything. Just read to find wisdom. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians. Here is a book to help you to understand the bible. It's a free download and you can get a hard copy at any bible book store.
    www.philologos.org/__eb-htetb/ "How To Enjoy The Bible"
      April 9, 2018 2:33 AM MDT
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  • 10662
    Exactly, people don't like what it says so they twist it around to try and make it support their particular agenda or lifestyle.  
    It's not simply memorization, but application (James 1:22-25).  I can memorize the state vehicle code all I want, but if I don't do what it says I put myself and other in danger when I drive my car.  
    Although I've read and studied the entire bible (cover to cover) for over 30 years, I don't claim to know or understand it all.  In fact, nearly every time I read it I find things in there that I hadn't noticed before.  That's why I asked what you meant by "nothing is forgiven".   Having other people's point of views can help others see things that they might otherwise not notice or help another correct error (not that each person is correct in their own understanding).
    I believe that all the "books" from Romans through Revelation were written to Christians (those who follow Christ).  Some books even say that they were written to Christians (i.e. 1 Peter).  


      April 9, 2018 10:27 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    It is not reliable to let people tell you what the Bible says.
    Sure you have to believe as Paul said but you have to have accurate knowledge and live in harmony with that belief.

    (Matthew 7:21-23) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

    (James 2:18-20) Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?

    (Romans 10:2-4) For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. 3 For because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.


    As far as forgiveness:
    (Matthew 6:14, 15) “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15 whereas if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
    (Isaiah 1:16-18) Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove your evil deeds from my sight; Stop doing bad. 17 Learn to do good, seek justice, Correct the oppressor, Defend the rights of the fatherless child, And plead the cause of the widow.” 18 “Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah. “Though your sins are like scarlet, They will be made as white as snow; Though they are as red as crimson cloth, They will become like wool.
    (Luke 15:6, 7) And when he gets home, he calls his friends and his neighbors together, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous ones who have no need of repentance.
    (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
      April 9, 2018 8:14 AM MDT
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  • 17614
    Who said all is forgiven?  There is some work to do before asking for forgiveness.  Since we don't know when he will return, seems to me we should be sure and ask for forgiveness at every opportunity....to stay current, so to speak.  ;)
      April 8, 2018 9:22 PM MDT
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  • 5835
    Jesus is coming! Look busy!
      April 9, 2018 2:34 AM MDT
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  • 5835
    "seems to me we should be sure
          and ask for forgiveness at every
          opportunity....to stay current, so to speak."

    That is exactly what Job did, and you know what happened to him.

    We should try to remember that God is the God of rightness, not silly ceremonies. You can not establish your own righteousness by doing this or that, you can only claim the righteousness of God, and that means trust. Not ceremonies. This post was edited by Not Sure at April 9, 2018 3:42 AM MDT
      April 9, 2018 3:40 AM MDT
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  • 17614
    Stop trying to trick me into participating in your ceremonies.  I'll have none of that!
      April 9, 2018 7:38 PM MDT
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  • 492
    To confirm that the fear installed in all flocks around the world was successful. 
    Go into all nations and install fear in everyone, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
      April 9, 2018 4:47 AM MDT
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  • Scriptures tell us that in order to receive forgiveness, you must learn to forgive others. Regarding judgement, there's plenty to answer for on our behalf, forgiveness notwithstanding. 
      April 9, 2018 8:34 AM MDT
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  • 16829
    We ask God to "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" (Matt 6:12), likewise Jesus told Peter to forgive "not up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven" (Matt 18:21-22). This does not mean to count them and nail them for the 491st transgression, but to impose a meaninglessly high number to imply that forgiveness should be unlimited. It is not for us to decide what is in the heart of another, only God knows that (Rom 12:19).
      April 9, 2018 9:38 AM MDT
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  • 2658
    Psalm 24
    The Earth is the Lord's
    3..Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD? And who may stand in His holy place? 4..He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully. 5..He shall receive a blessing from the LORD And righteousness from the God of his salvation.…

    Psalm 32:5
    I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD", And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah.

    And my iniquity I did not hide; And has not sworn deceitfully..isn't this being sincere?
      April 9, 2018 2:55 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    Q ""Forgive, forgive, forgive"? If all is forgiven why is the Lord coming back to JUDGE?
    Paul was something else."
    ===========================================================


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the message of Christianity on forgiveness is very different from the message of the "Old Testament", of Ezekiel, of John the Baptist and of Jesus.

    If you look at Ezekiel 18:20-22 you'll see God's promise that “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall NOT bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” God also promises that "if wicked people turn away from all their sins and begin to obey my decrees and do what is just and right, they will surely live and not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them."

    John the Baptist, according to Luke 3:3, was authorised by God so "He went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins"

    Jesus too taught of forgiveness in his parable of the prodigal son and in his Lord's prayer, "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

    By contrast, Christianity is centred on retribution. Jesus had to die for the forgiveness of sins and be raised. No death, then no forgiveness of sins and no resurrection This is very clear in the stark warning of Paul in 1 Corinthians.15:17 that "if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins"
      May 13, 2018 8:19 AM MDT
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