Active Now

Spunky
Malizz
Shuhak
Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » Why do many Bible followers resist the idea America could be "Mystery Babylon" or at least a daughter following in her mother's stiletto

Why do many Bible followers resist the idea America could be "Mystery Babylon" or at least a daughter following in her mother's stiletto

steps? Do they love this Earthly kingdom more than the kingdom to come?

Posted - April 9, 2018

Responses


  • 32527
    Because it does not line up with scripture.
      April 10, 2018 5:36 AM MDT
    1

  • 2657
    Symbolism in Bible prophesy uses wild beast to represent governments and horns to represent dual governments. As ancient Babylon was inundated in false religious teachings like spiritism, triad gods, immortality of the soul, etc, Babylon in Revelation represents all false religions that try to be intermingled with governments, holding a kingdom over them so to speak.

    https://answermug.com/forums/topic/54435/what-about-the-mark-of-the-beast-will-make-one-suffer-eternal-da/view/post_id/463852
      April 10, 2018 7:56 AM MDT
    0

  • 1305

    Wasn't Jehovah Witnesses started by a freemason?

    Cross and the crown is the Knights Templar, which is the freemasons.

    https://jwhelp.org/2016/02/14/would-jesus-wear-a-rolex-or-a-pinky-ring/


    Winged sundisk

      April 10, 2018 3:15 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Not hardly. You would do well to follow the biblical example of not relying on the words of opposers.
    (Acts 28:22) But we think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere.”

    https://watchtowerdocuments.org/charles-taze-russell-was-not-a-pennsylvania-freemason/

    C. T. Russell Was Never a Freemason

     

    Back in 2001, I requested historical information from the ANCIENT ACCEPTED SCOTTISH RITE OF FREEMASONRY, VALLEY OF PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA, asking if Charles Taze Russell, his father, Joseph Lytel Russell, and his uncle, Charles Tays Russell, were Pennsylvania Freemasons. This is the answer I received in a letter:

    “AFTER A SEARCH OF OUR RECORDS, WE DETERMINED THAT THE THREE RUSSELLS WERE NOT MEMBERS OF OUR ORGANIZATION.”

    In their letter, the Pittsburgh Chapter recommended that I send an inquiry asking for further research into this question to the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania located in Philadelphia – which I did. On April 27, 2001, I received this reply:

    “THE RECORD BOOKS IN THE GRAND SECRETARY’S OFFICE ARE UNAVAILABLE AT THIS TIME AS THEY ARE BEING CONSERVED AND SHOULD BE BACK SOME TIME IN THE FALL.”

    Inasmuch as I was very involved with other, more pressing things then, I did not follow-up and eventually my desire for resolution of this question faded out of my mind, that is, until September 2005 when I sent a follow-up email to the Masonic Temple, Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. Shortly thereafter, I received this reply:

    DEAR MS. ANDERSON,

    CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL WAS NOT A PENNSYLVANIA FREEMASON. NOR DOES HE APPEAR IN THE RECORDS OF ENGLAND OR IRELAND.

    I SHALL CHECK THE RECORDS FOR THE OTHER TWO RUSSELLS.

    BEST,
    GLENYS A. WALDMAN
    LIBRARIAN

    I never checked back with Ms. Waldman to see whether the other two Russell’s were Pennsylvania Freemasons, but there has never been any evidence they were, so I didn’t bother.

    In any event, I would hope the answer from a search of the original records will forever put this claim to rest that Charles Taze Russell was a Pennsylvania Freemason because he absolutely was not.

    Further Information:

    Grand Lodge of British Columbia & Yukon – Anti-masonry Frequently Asked Questions – Section 3, Version 2.9 https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry03.html#russell Charles Taze Russell“Claims have been made that “Pastor” Russell” (1852/02/16-1916/10/31), founder of the International Bible Students Association — forerunner of the Jehovah’s Witnesses — was a freemason; that the banner on the front of early issues of the Watchtower contained masonic symbols; and that Russell’s gravestone bears a masonic cross and crown symbol.”Russell was not a freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic. And the cross and crown symbol does not appear on his gravestone in the Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania — it appears on a memorial erected some years later.“In an address delivered in a San Francisco masonic hall in 1913, Russell made positive use of masonic imagery by saying, “Now, I am a free and accepted mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our masonic brethren.” He further develops this idea: “true Bible believers may or may not belong to the masonic fraternity, but they are all masons of the highest order, since they are being fashioned, chiseled and polished by the Almighty to be used as living stones in the Temple Built Without Hands. They are free from sin, and therefore accepted by the God of Heaven as fit stones for the heavenly Temple.” Later in this address, Russell stated quite clearly that “I have never been a mason.” Those who claim Russell was a freemason quote this address out of context without noting the rhetorical imagery.“Although Russell wrote about the pyramids and the Knights Templar, the pyramids are not a part of Freemasonry and Russell’s understanding of the relationship between the modern Knights Templar and Freemasonry displays an outsider’s ignorance of both organizations.”
      April 10, 2018 3:57 PM MDT
    1

  • 1305
    Besides the fact that you expect Freemasons to tell you the truth, when they keep their own brethren in the dark, (Albert Pike), and are free of the law hence "freemasons," isn't it coincidental that the cross and the crown is the symbol of the Knights Templar and that there is a knight in the other corner just in case you do not want to believe it.  And didn't Russell write that book that has the sundisk on the front which is from ancient Egypt and represents osirius or/and Ra? And what about the sundisk on the Jehovah Witness church? Do you think freemasons worship Jehovah, because they have every religious book on their altar, so long as you believe in something.  And what about the fact that the Jehovah Witnesses at the top are very rich? Isn't it just another pyramid scheme, with the genuine people but "workers at the bottom" making those at the top very rich?



    This post was edited by kjames at April 10, 2018 4:24 PM MDT
      April 10, 2018 4:16 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Nothing secret about JW's. You want to know what JW's believe all you have to do is listen. The building is obviously a rented building for an assembly. 

    Quote: "And what about the fact that the Jehovah Witnesses at the top are very rich?" That's funny. Where does all of that money come from? Are we encourage to work over time or to get higher education so as to get more money? Do we tithe or pass a plate like the mega Churches?

    https://www.biblefriendlybooks.com/2016/08/helping-haiti-give-generously-but-wisely.html

    ...

    The last reply I got was from an elder at a Jehovah’s Witnesses Kingdom Hall. He wrote: “Our kingdom hall is used by four congregations to avoid crowding and to allow us to get to know each other better. Each congregation meets twice a week, attendance averages 110 per meeting. No collections are ever taken in any kingdom hall anywhere in the world. No plate is passed, no dunning letters are sent out. We do not tithe. We have no paid ministers or staff. Each congregation is presided over by a body of elders, none superior to any other. We have a box at the back of the hall with a slot in the top where people can anonymously contribute what they can, if they wish, to pay for the utilities and maintenance of the building. We keep costs down by all of us – elders and publishers – jointly working together on cleaning and maintenance projects. We have another box where people can drop a contribution, if they wish, to the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. That money supports the printing of millions of copies of The Watchtower and Awake magazine, Bibles, and other study aids. These publications are not sold; they are given freely to any who agree to read them. The brothers and sisters who live and work at the world headquarters in New York and in branch offices around the world are all volunteers. None – from the newest laborer to the members of the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses – receive a salary.  The funds sent in for the worldwide work also support thousands of missionaries in other lands. Our missionaries are not school teachers or social workers. They devote their full time to teaching people the Bible. As all our meetings are about studying the Bible, money is not mentioned. Occasionally a letter is read thanking the congregation for contributions received. Every penny contributed is scrupulously accounted for, and any member of the congregation is free to ask any of the elders for an accounting of what the money was spent on. There is no special collection for Haiti; there is no need for that. Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide consider ourselves a brotherhood, and the problems of our brothers in Haiti are the same as if they happened to our literal family members, so there is no need to urge anyone to contribute. Jehovah’s Witnesses in Dominican Republic were on the road to Haiti with relief supplies within hours after the quake hit. Several Witness doctors from Dominican Republic and elsewhere have been working almost nonstop since the quake. Money and other supplies from the Watchtower Society headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, were sent immediately to Haiti and Dominican Republic, and supplies and money are still pouring in. Of course, no repayment will ever be asked for or expected… we know they would do the same for us.”

    Well, that was refreshing. I went to watchtower.org and searched it for references to money, donations, charity. All I found were Watchtower articles such as “Is money your master or your servant?” and “Is pursuit of money making you sick?” Try as I might, there was no way to donate any money to the organization, nor any request for donations. The only mention of money I found, in connection with Haiti, was in a public news release entitled  “Witnesses’ relief efforts well under way for victims of earthquake in Haiti.” A single line at the bottom read, “The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work.”

    For more information, Check out charitynavigator.org.

    Follow-up:
     
     
    One Haitian customs official, while approving the importation of the construction materials, commented: “Jehovah’s Witnesses were among the first ones who came across the border to get help for people. They don’t just talk about helping, they really do it.” In the first six months following the quake, 1,700 homes had already been built by the Witnesses for those who had lost theirs.
     
    The Red Cross says it has provided homes to more than 130,000 people. But the actual number of permanent homes the group has built in all of Haiti: six.

     


    https://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/43921/22323397/Contributions_to_Haiti?pg=1&&num=1

     



      April 10, 2018 4:26 PM MDT
    1

  • 1305


    Coincidence that the rented building has the same sundisk that Russells book has on it, the sundisk isn't a common motif either?  The sundisk was an Egyptian motif for the sun god Osiris, Ra, Horus, Isis.

    Russels symbol even has the pinchers of the scarab beetle on it.






    This post was edited by kjames at April 17, 2018 3:44 PM MDT
      April 17, 2018 3:38 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    From what I understand, that book was about the hypocrisy of Christendom. There are many books and magazines that have pictures of triads and such. I suppose someone as gullible as yourself would look at the cover and assume that JW's believe in the trinity? You posted the image on the internet. By your standards that makes you either a freemason or a hypocrite. Which is it?

    Cover - Should you believe in the trinity?

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com%2Fimages%2Ftrinitybrochure.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com%2F1deityofchrist.html&docid=BOh1YIzhQk2-JM&tbnid=VuD_d589kYCmKM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwid4fmppsLaAhUS84MKHdU_A1wQMwg7KAMwAw..i&w=324&h=386&bih=949&biw=1920&q=should%20you%20believe%20in%20the%20trinity&ved=0ahUKEwid4fmppsLaAhUS84MKHdU_A1wQMwg7KAMwAw&iact=mrc&uact=8

    Image result for should you believe in the trinity
    Images of triads This post was edited by texasescimo at April 17, 2018 4:23 PM MDT
      April 17, 2018 3:58 PM MDT
    0

  • 1305
    You haven't read the book then?
      April 17, 2018 4:23 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Nope, I don't follow Russell and after over 1,700 years of apostasy at the bloody hands of the Catholic Church, he didn't likely know how much in the dark they still were back then. I understand that he celebrated Christmas and believed the stauros to be a cross and other misconceptions. 
      April 17, 2018 4:28 PM MDT
    0

  • 1305
    All roads lead to Rome






    Or Egypt?








    The virtue truth who sits with her foot on the globe and in her arms she cradles the Sun.







    Of course Babylon is where current day Iraq is.

    Job 38:31 "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion's belt?

    On earth as it is in heaven. As above so below.



      April 10, 2018 4:06 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    I agree that the Catholic Church is a prominent part of Babylon the Great but couldn't you as well pull other symbols and photos and say: "All roads lead to Iraq"? Don't most religions teach similar doctrines to ancient Babylon like immortality of the soul? Don't other religions hold sway on other Nations where Catholic influence is minimal?

    (Revelation 14:8) Another, a second angel, followed, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality!”
    (Revelation 18:2, 3) And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks! 3 For because of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury.”
    (Revelation 18:9) “And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning.

      April 16, 2018 5:55 AM MDT
    0

  • 1305
    The other countries are poorer, the pope isn't just a vicar he is also a King, and the Vatican has "loads of money." Unam Sanctam means all souls outside the Catholic Church will not be saved.

    "That there is only    One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church we are    compelled by faith to believe and hold, and we firmly believe    in her and sincerely confess her, outside of whom    there is neither salvation nor remission of sins.....Furthermore    we declare, state and define that it is absolutely necessary    for the salvation of all human beings that they submit to the    Roman Pontiff."

    November 18th 1302 AD Pope Boniface III

    The pope also abolished the concept of limbo

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1549439/The-Pope-ends-state-of-limbo-after-800-years.html

    and it instated a pope (supposedly chosen by God), who then resigned.  For me, any organisation that is rich at it's top end, is not of the teaching of Christ.

    Either religion has some truth in it, or it's all just a plan to depopulate the world at the end of the age, and rehash the same sun/planetary worship, into the new one to control the masses and make a lot of money. That's the scary thing about it all.

    However, times are a changing, since the pope now appears to except the Quoran, and many other religions, which maybe because Catholic means universal, it's a universal church which incorporates all religion, that's why it's such a mishmash of ancient beliefs and rituals.  One world order and one religion.  Maybe most religions come from the worship of the seven planets, since we name our days of the week after them, (except for Jews who number them), except for Earth, that's never been given a day.  Even Jews have the Menorrah which has either seven or nine candles and the Shamash is always the servant light, shamash was a name of a sun god.

    Either way no major religion today, that isn't financed in some way by the main Catholic Church, or the federal banks private stock holders goes without influence by them, it just wouldn't be allowed everything will be infiltrated in some way. This post was edited by kjames at April 17, 2018 4:21 PM MDT
      April 17, 2018 4:16 PM MDT
    0

  • 2706
    Why is this Babylon called a mystery? It may be a mystery but the Bible gives us a few clues about who and what it is. First clue is that it's a city. America is a country not a city. Clue 2 is in verse 1, where it says a woman sits on many waters. Verse 15 explains the meaning of the waters. “And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Not only is this woman a city, but the city is apparently the headquarters over a huge international system. Clue three. The city sits on 7 hills. What major city in the world sit's on 7 hills? Rome. One last clue. She is dressed in purple and red. There are two ruling bodies in the Roman Catholic Church: The College of Cardinals and the College of Bishops and Archbishops. Guess what colors they wear? Cardinals wear red, while non-Cardinal Bishops and Archbishops wear purple. How about that. Is this proof positive that Mystery Babylon is the Vatican and Rome? Can't say that it is but the clues sure seem to point that way. What those clues don't seem to point to is America being Mystery Babylon. As always, just my opinion. :)
      April 10, 2018 8:35 PM MDT
    3

  • 32527
    I agree 100%
      April 10, 2018 9:06 PM MDT
    2

  • 2657
    Some good clues. Definitely a prominent part of Babylon the Great. I think it's bigger than just the Vatican though as all the nations are involved and the Vatican doesn't hold sway over all the nations. Some Middle Eastern nations will likely rejoice at the Vatican's demise. Also the Vatican as a nation won't likely turn on Babylon if it is Babylon. My thoughts anyway. I read a book several years ago that had references to pre-Revelation verses and historical references that helped some but my memory isn't the best without going back to it.

    (Revelation 18:3) For because of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury.”
    (Revelation 14:8) Another, a second angel, followed, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality!”
    (Revelation 17:3-18:4)
      April 11, 2018 6:28 AM MDT
    0

  • 32527
    It is not in its complete Endtimes form yet. It will  sway the nations globally when the false prophet comes up and the AntiChrist comes into power. 
      April 11, 2018 6:38 AM MDT
    1

  • 1326
    Babylon the great has nothing to do with political governments. In the near future it will be proven how the world governments will completely destroy her. (Revelation 17:16)
      April 12, 2018 12:34 AM MDT
    0