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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » Suppose Hitler asserted he was inspired by God to compose his book 'Mein Kampf' do you think could have become basis for a new religion?

Suppose Hitler asserted he was inspired by God to compose his book 'Mein Kampf' do you think could have become basis for a new religion?

Posted - June 1, 2018

Responses


  • 2657
    Possibly? Didn't he just have to tweek the teachings of Protestant and Catholic Churches in Germany to get them to commit heinous crimes against humanity for him?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_aspects_of_Nazism#Nazism_and_Christianity



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
      June 1, 2018 1:58 PM MDT
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  • 13395
    Thanks for the links..

    Good interesting reading material to get a perception of all those events that happened. 
      June 1, 2018 2:28 PM MDT
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  • 135
    He sure did not need to tweak your teachings as seen in this extract from a letter written by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to dear Adolf

    The conference of five thousand delegates also noted - as is expressed in the declaration - that the Bible Researchers of Germany are fighting for the very same high ethical goals and ideals which also the national government of the German Reich proclaimed respecting the relationship of humans to God, namels: honesty of the created being towards its creator.

    The conference came to the conclusion that there are no contradictions when it comes to the relationship between the Bible Researchers of Germany to the national government of the German Reich. To the contrary, referring to the purely religious and unpolitical goals and efforts of the Bible Researchers, it can be said that these are in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich.

      June 6, 2018 10:41 AM MDT
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  • 2657


    That all sounds condemning after his full intentions became known. Can you site a source that shows that JW's in Germany committed heinous crimes against humanity for him?

    Don't think that is actually translated 100% accurately. The letter was written at the time because it was said that our books and like literature, when circulated amongst the people, constitute a danger to the peace and safety of the nation. The high ethical goals and ideals expressed at the time were in relation to misrule of Big Business and conscienceless politicians, which misrule has been and is supported by political religionists. Also Hitler had expressed disagreement with Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation. 

     
    https://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/apl/jw/declfact.txt
    "A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact
    that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national
    government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our
    publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high
    ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness
    and who obey the Most High. Instead, therefore, of our literature and our
    work's being a menace to the principles of the present government we are
    the strongest supporters of such high ideals. For this reason Satan, the
    enemy of all men who desire righteousness, has sought to misrepresent our
    work and prevent us from carrying it on in this land.

    You might educate yourself on what really happened to JW's under Hitler as reflected by the religious historian Christine King:

    file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/KING%20CHRISTINE%20IJLPS%202011%20Leadership%20lessons%20from%20history%20J%20(29).pdf


    You can also read historical information on the website for the United State Holocaust Memorial Museum:
    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005394
    Jehovah's Witnesses were subjected to intense persecution under the Nazi regime. The Nazis targeted Jehovah's Witnesses because they were unwilling to accept the authority of the state, because of their international connections, and because they were strongly opposed to both war on behalf of a temporal authority and organized government in matters of conscience.

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10006187

    https://www.ushmm.org/search/results/?q=jehovah%27s+witnesses


    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jw-holocaust-facts-concentration-camps/
      June 6, 2018 11:52 AM MDT
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  • 135
    Neither I nor anyone else is claiming that any JW committed any 'heinous crimes against humanity for him' (him being Adolf?) but given JW's attitude towards the Jews it would seem that you were quite happy with the situation till the knocks came to the doors of the JWs, as seen in this extract from the 'statement of facts' [EDIT sorry Declaration of Facts not statement of facts] that accompanied the letter quoted above:
    "The greatest and most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: 'The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills" 
    This extract below from "The Watchtower Observer" Website.
    We are in the process of getting several Jewish Holocaust groups to comment on the accuracy of this material. Of the several replies, one in particular was quite shocked from what they saw and are pursuing it in detail with a view to removing the positive place "Jehovah's Witnesses" presently share in several Holocaust museums. Oct 2001

    This is not quite the bed of roses you portray re. holocaust memorials.

    While I do not deny that the JWs were treated very badly under Nazi Germany along with everyone else from Jews to atheists via gypsies and gays, in a time of war, in a time of national conscription, anyone refusing to do his duty for that country is  going to face that country's laws and that is why the JWs suffered, they were very happy that others should risk their lives but were not willing to do the same. Now you could and indeed you did, argue that this was a matter of conscience and that may well be so, however it does not negate the stance taken in the communications with Hitler. 

    If you do not like the translation then I will be happy to supply you with the original in German and you can translate it for yourself, it would not surprise me if JW.org have made their own translation to suit, just as they made their own translation of the bible as that did not suit them either.
    This post was edited by DCLXVI at June 6, 2018 2:10 PM MDT
      June 6, 2018 2:06 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    You get all of your information from hateful anti-JW websites but I guess that suits you.

    Quote: "Neither I nor anyone else is claiming that any JW committed any 'heinous crimes against humanity for him"

    Yet you replied to my comment about Hitler tweeking teachings of Protestant and Catholic Churches in Germany to get them to commit heinous crimes against humanity for him?

    You can take any part of something out of context and try to make it look like JW's supported Hitler and his atrocities but history shows different, for those not blinded by hatred and bigotry anyway. 

    Quote: "JWs suffered, they were very happy that others should risk their lives but were not willing to do the same."
    Don't know why you feel so superior in your lying judgments? JW's all over the world were targeted and their very lives were at risk for their neutral stance. You want to pretend like their lives were safe and you can do so. Killing others at the order of your government gives you a fighting chance. Refusing to do so cost many their lives but go ahead and make your false judgments, you seem to be good at it.

    JW"s spoke out against Hitler's treatment of the Jews. You don't seem to be that bothered that millions of people actually participated in carnage throughout the earth during WWII but you have it out for JW's who murdered no one. Educate yourself a little:

    https://historicalleaders.weebly.com/

    GERMAN CONCENTRATION CAMP

        One of the largest persecution events was when Jehovah's Witnesses went through concentration camps in 1933. During this time, Hitler launched a campaign to annihilate Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany. Many Jehovah's Witnesses and Jews went through this persecution because Hitler and the Germans thought that they were a "superior race". Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses were considered handicapped in their eyes. Many also blamed them for Germany's defeat during WWI. Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews, homosexuals, Communists, and Socialists were Imprisoned, killed, and persecuted on political and behavioral grounds. Millions of prisoners perished from disease, starvation, and forced labor or were killed for racial political reasons.





    https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1933-1938

    https://remember.org/shoah/timeline.html

    https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/people/jwtimeln.htm

    Jehovah's Witnesses in the Holocaust

    Chronology of events 1933-1945

    1933 - About 25,000 Jehovah's Witnesses are active in Germany. March, first concentration camp, Dachau, established. April 1, all religious literature printed by Jehovah's Witnesses is banned from circulation in Germany. In June, Prussian State Police ban the work and organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some Witnesses sentenced to terms in labor and concentration camps. Watch Tower office in Magdeburg raided and closed. August 16, first mention of existence of concentration camps in the Golden Age magazine (now Awake!), published internationally by Jehovah's Witnesses.

    1934 - October 7, telegrams of protest sent to Hitler by Jehovah's Witnesses in 50 countries, including Germany.

    1935 - April 1, Jehovah's Witnesses banned from all civil service jobs and arrested throughout Germany. Pension and employment benefits confiscated. Marriage to one of Jehovah's Witnesses becomes legal grounds for divorce. Children of Jehovah's Witnesses banned from attending school. Some children taken from parents to be raised in Nazi homes and reform schools.

    1936 - Mass arrests of Jehovah's Witnesses. Several thousand are sent to concentration camps and some remain there until 1945. December 12, Jehovah's Witnesses throughout Germany secretly distribute 200,000 copies of the Lucerne Resolution, a protest of Nazi atrocities, in one hour.

    1937 - Buchenwald concentration camp established. Here is first known use of the purple triangle as a symbol for camp inmates who are Jehovah's Witnesses. April 22, Gestapo order directs that all of Jehovah's Witnesses released from prison be taken directly to concentration camps. June 20, Jehovah's Witnesses throughout Germany secretly distribute the "Open Letter," which supplies detailed accounts of Nazi atrocities.

    1938 - October 2, Watch Tower Society President J. F. Rutherford, speaking over a network of 60 radio stations, denounces Nazi persecution of the Jews. November 9 and 10, Jews experience a nationwide attack in a pogrom called Krystallnacht (Night of Broken Glass). About 25,000 Jewish men deported to concentration camps. On November 15, all Jewish children expelled from school.

    1939 - September 15, August Dickman, one of Jehovah's Witnesses and the first conscientious objector of the war to be executed, dies by firing squad at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.

    1942 - January 20, Wannsee Conference of Nazi officials formalizes plans for the so-called Final Solution, the extermination of European Jewry.

    1945 - May 7, Germany surrenders and the war in Europe ends. The Nuremberg war crimes trials begin in November. September 30, verdicts of the war crimes trials announced in Nuremberg on the same day that Jehovah's Witnesses hold public convention at the Zeppelinwiese, formerly used for Nazi Party rallies.



    Also, you have no clue as to what you are talking about on Bible translations. You only parrot what others have said.
    Can you tell me why the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible has Yahweh in it but the Catholic New American Bible doesn't?
    Can you tell me why the KJV has Jehovah in it but the New King James Version doesn't?
    Can you tell me why the Catholic NJB doesn't have Hell in it but the Catholic NAB does?
    What words were translated as Hell? What words were translated as Lord or LORD? 
    Just a small tidbit of stuff you likely were not even aware of.

    This post was edited by texasescimo at June 7, 2018 12:00 AM MDT
      June 6, 2018 3:26 PM MDT
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  • 135


    1943
    From the book: The Truth shall make you free” published by the WTBS Inc. New York, Chapter XXIV , page 316 :
    « Eventually 6000 of them were thrown into concentration camps, isolated and distinguished 
    fromother by a violet badge , and most brutally treated”.

    7 years later:

    1950

    *** w50 12/15 p. 500 Jehovah’s Witnesses Again Endure Totalitarian Hate ***
    “With the mass-arresting of Jehovah’s witnesses these people have now, for the second time within a couple of decades, donned the martyr’s crown—and they know what that means. Already during the Hitler regime about 1,000 Jehovah’s witnesses were executed as traitors, because they not only refused to serve in the war but openly opposed Hitler’s authority. Another 1,000 of Jehovah’s witnesses died in prisons and concentration camps, and all who have afterwards been describing life in those camps have in their books given Jehovah’s witnesses the very highest recognition.

    8 years later:

    1951

    *** w51 2/15 pp. 105-106 An Open Answer to “The Vindicator” ***
    That is why during the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933 to 1945 Jehovah’s witnesses in that land refused to heil Hitler! as their Fuehrer or Leader, and went to concentration camps and prisons, where 2,000 died cruel deaths, and of the 8,000 that came out alive, 2,000 were invalided for the rest of their lives.

    11 years later:

    1954

    *** w54 12/1 pp. 724-725 par. 17 The Fight for Freedom to Preach World-wide ***
    17 It is a familiar story about the fight for freedom fought by Jehovah’s witnesses to preach in Nazi- and Fascist-dominated lands from 1933 to 1945. Thousands were thrown into the concentration camps. Many were tortured and killed. Countless numbers died because of their loyalty to Jehovah God.

    12 years later:

    1955

    *** w55 8/1 pp. 462-463 Part 15—Foreign Activities Under Fascist-Nazi Persecution ***
    Thus a mad national effort was embarked upon, to eliminate Jehovah’s witnesses from the German national scene. In the course of the dark years that followed thousands of witnesses were arrested, falsely convicted and put in prisons and concentration camps where many of them suffered unspeakably. Some two thousand witnesses lost their lives in this struggle to keep faithful integrity to Jehovah.

    21 years later:

    1964

    *** w64 1/1 p. 13 par. 19 They Listened to an Angel ***
    19 Hitler, a Roman Catholic, the arm of his church in Germany, forbade Jehovah’s witnesses to preach the kingdom of God, and these modern-day Christians had to say to Hitler’s Gestapo police: ‘Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, judge for yourselves.’ They kept preaching even though 10,000 of them were put in concentration camps and over 4,000 died there. The rest nearly starved to death. The war’s end aided their survival.

    31 years later:

    1974

    *** yb74 p. 212 Part 3—Germany ***
    A total of 2,000 brothers and sisters had been put into concentration camps, where they had spent 8,078 years and six months, an average of four years. A total of 635 had died in prison, 253 had been sentenced to death and 203 of these had actually been executed. What a record of integrity!

    31 years later:

    1974

    *** g74 1/22 p. 32 Would You Remain Loyal? ***

    In Nazi Germany Jehovah’s witnesses refused to compromise. They remained loyal to righteous principles. They had no share in Hitler’s political or military aggressions. Just a few decades ago, hundreds died in his concentration camps. But thousands came out strong in faith.

    36 years later:

     

    1979

    *** w79 11/1 p. 7 Neutrality in a Mixed-up World ***
    Many Christian witnesses of Jehovah in Nazi Germany and elsewhere lost their lives in maintaining neutrality. As they faced death they drew comfort from Jesus’ words: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna [eternal death].” (Matt. 10:28)

    41 years later:

    1984

    *** w84 10/1 p. 8 Impressed by the Integrity of Jehovah’s Witnesses ***
    The title of Dr. King’s book is The Nazi State and the New Religions: Five Case Studies in Non-Conformity.
    Most outstanding among Dr. King’s findings are the figures of deaths and imprisonment of Jehovah’s Witnesses. These indicate that the figures previously published by the Witnesses were greatly underestimated. Dr. King’s source for these statistics was a volume published in Munich, Germany, by Michael Kater. “My own perusal of Court and Gestapo records,” she declared, “would certainly support these higher figures.”
    What are these figures? “Some 10,000 were imprisoned, and together they received sentences totalling 20,000 years. One out of every two German Witnesses was imprisoned, one in four lost their lives.

     

    41 years later:

    1984

    *** g84 12/8 p. 13 Nazi-Fascist Attacks on Witnesses ***
    Some were not only victims but also martyrs, for they could have obtained their release. That was the case, according to one source, with the 10,000 Witnesses, men and women, who were victims of the sadism and brutality that Hitler and his S.S. henchmen had organized. Those Witnesses were given the opportunity to sign a paper renouncing their religion and thus go free. Very few accepted.—See The Nazi State and the New Religions: Five Case Studies in Non-Conformity, by Dr. Christine E. King.
    Of the 10,000, about 2,500 never did go free, according to the above source—they died in Dachau, Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Ravensbrück, Auschwitz, Mauthausen and other camps—faithful to their God, Jehovah, and their exemplar, Christ. Aside from those who were gassed, many died as a result of beatings, starvation and medical experimentation. Others, including women, were executed by being hanged, beheaded or shot.

    43 years later:

    1986

    *** w86 1/1 p. 10 par. 3 Days Like “the Days of Noah” ***
    . And as to persecution, Jesus forewarned his disciples, saying: “They will put some of you to death.” Hundreds of our brothers died at the violent hands of Nazi Hitler. Jehovah will remember all of such in the resurrection

    45 years later:

    1988

    *** re chap. 8 p. 40 par. 9 Striving to Be Conquerors ***
    9 During Nazi rule in Germany, Hitler completely banned the preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. For years, thousands of Witnesses were cruelly confined in concentration camps and prisons, where many died, while some 200 young men who refused to fight in Hitler’s army were executed.

    1988

    *** re chap. 27 p. 185 par. 28 God’s Kingdom Is Born! ***
    28 This vicious flood of persecution reached a high point during World War II. In Europe some 12,000 Witnesses were incarcerated in Nazi concentration camps and prisons, and about 2,000 died.

    46 years later:

     

    1989

    *** w89 1/1 p. 21 par. 13 “To Jehovah Belongs the Battle” ***
    . The book Mothers in the Fatherland reported: “[Jehovah’s Witnesses] were sent to concentration camps, a thousand of them were executed, and another thousand died between 1933 and 1945. . . . Catholics and Protestants heard their clergy urge them to cooperate with Hitler.

    47 years later:

    1990

    *** w90 2/1 p. 22 par. 9 Exposing “the Man of Lawlessness” ***
    9 Many of Jehovah’s Witnesses have surrendered their soul in behalf of their friends in obeying the law of love. A review of the book Kirchenkampf in Deutschland (Fight of the Churches in Germany), by Friedrich Zipfel, says regarding the Witnesses: “Ninety-seven percent of the members of this small religious group were victims of National Socialistic [Nazi] persecution. One third of them were killed, either by execution, other violent acts, hunger, sickness or slave labor

    50 years later:

     

    1993

    *** g93 5/8 p. 4 Victims or Martyrs What Is the Difference? ***
    During the Nazi period in Germany (1933-45), Jehovah’s Witnesses suffered terrible persecution for daring to remain neutral and for refusing to serve in Hitler’s war effort. Thousands were sent to the dreaded concentration camps, where many were executed and others died from mistreatment.

     

    1993

    *** g93 5/8 p. 31 A Holocaust Museum and Jehovah’s Witnesses ***
    The Nazis thus banned them as an organization in April 1933. Accused of both civil and religious disobedience, they were among the first groups to be thrown into concentration camps. “Ultimately, more than 30,000 Witnesses were persecuted by the Nazis,” states a museum newsletter.

    1993

     

    *** g93 5/8 p. 32 “‘Jehovah’ Erased by Nazis” ***
    All of this was part of the Nazis’ campaign of persecution of the Jews. At the same time, it was doubtless intended to strike a blow against Jehovah’s Witnesses, who had been banned since 1933 and were also being sent to the concentration camps.
    In 1933 there were 19,268 active Witnesses in Germany.

    52 years later:

    1995

    *** g95 8/22 p. 10 The Evils of Nazism Exposed ***
    Why were Jehovah’s Witnesses so well acquainted with the concentration camps? When World War II started in 1939, there were already 6,000 Witnesses confined in camps and prisons. German historian Detlef Garbe estimates that the Witnesses constituted at that time between 5 and 10 percent of the total camp population!

    At a seminar on the Witnesses and the Holocaust, Garbe stated: “Of the 25,000 persons who admitted to being Jehovah’s Witnesses at the beginning of the Third Reich, about 10,000 were imprisoned for any length of time. Of these, over 2,000 were admitted to concentration camps. This means that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were, with the exception of the Jews, the worst persecuted by the SS of all the religious based groups.”

    *

     

    53 years later:

    1996

    ** g96 9/8 p. 30 From Our Readers ***

    However, as a group Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to support the Nazi regime. Thus, they became the targets of vicious persecution by Hitler’s government. Thousands suffered imprisonment in concentration camps, and many died there. See our August 22, 1995, issue.—ED.

    53 years later:

    1996

    *** g96 1/8 p. 28 Watching the World ***

    Interestingly, the Tribune observed that historian John S. Conway, of the University of British Columbia, Canada, said that the only religious organization that absolutely refused to follow the Nazis was Jehovah’s Witnesses. He added that for this more than half were sent to concentration camps.

    54 years later:

    1997

    *** g97 8/22 p. 26 Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia ***
    Because Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to cry out ‘Heil Hitler’ and serve in Hitler’s army, many thousands of believers were sent to Nazi concentration camps, and thousands died.

    57 years later:

     

    2000

    *** g00 12/22 p. 18 The First One a Hundred Years Ago ***

    In 1933 the branch was confiscated by the Nazis, the Witnesses were banned and, in time, two thousand of them were sent to concentration camps.

    57 years later:

    *** w00 4/1 p. 19 par. 5 Fighters Against God Will Not Prevail! ***

    5 Dictatorships emerged in the 1930’s, and Germany, Italy, and Japan united to form the Axis powers. Early in that decade, barbaric persecution was unleashed against God’s people, notably in Nazi Germany. Bans were imposed. Homes were searched, and their occupants were arrested. Thousands were thrown into concentration camps because they refused to renounce their faith.

    58 years later:

    2001

    *** g01 4/22 p. 5 A Focus of the Soviet Attack ***

    Further increase, “unbelievable as it may sound,” Kolarz wrote, came from “the German concentration camps.” The Nazis had imprisoned thousands of Witnesses for refusing to support Hitler and his war of aggression.

    58 years later:

    2001

    *** w01 3/15 p. 9 Courageous Integrity Keepers Triumph Over Nazi Persecution ***
    By 1939, six thousand of them had been imprisoned, and thousands had been sent to concentration camps. (Picture 3) What was the situation by the end of World War II? Some 2,000 imprisoned Witnesses had died, over 250 by execution.

    61 years later:

    2004

    *** w04 12/1 p. 26 Trusting in Jehovah’s Loving Care ***
    In 1936 and 1937, the Gestapo conducted mass arrests and threw thousands of Witnesses into prisons and concentration camps, where they suffered the most cruel and sadistic treatment.

    62 years later:

    2005

    *** w05 12/15 p. 22 par. 13 Whom Do You Obey—God or Men? ***

    His efficient death machine seemed more than equal to the task. The Nazis did succeed in rounding up thousands of Witnesses and sending them off to concentration camps. They even managed to kill some Witnesses.

    63 years later:

    2006

    *** w06 2/15 p. 32 “What Does the Purple Triangle Mean?” ***
    In Germany under the Nazi regime, Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to heil Hitler, and they maintained neutrality on political and military issues. So the Nazis cruelly persecuted them, incarcerating some 12,000 Witnesses for varying lengths of time in prisons and concentration camps. About 2,000 of them died, hundreds being executed.

    64 years later:

     

    2007

    *** es07 p. 17 February ***
    Thursday, February 1
    You may perhaps be found fighters actually against God.—Acts 5:39.
    When Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany refused to heil Adolf Hitler as their Führer, Hitler vowed to exterminate them. (Matt. 23:10) His efficient death machine seemed more than equal to the task. The Nazis did succeed in rounding up thousands of Witnesses and sending them off to concentration camps. They even managed to kill some Witnesses.

    This post was edited by my2cents at June 8, 2018 8:51 AM MDT
      June 6, 2018 4:59 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    You really didn't respond to any of my previous post. You went from implying that JW's were perpetrators just as involved in committing heinous crimes against humanity for Hitler as the Churches to now showing that JW's were victims. 
    Also, why not just admit that you haven't done any research in to Bible translations and are just parroting what anti-JW sites say with no basis?

    Can't deal with your previous mud slinging accusations against JW's as history shows different than what you did so you have to go grab some more crap to sling? 

    How many would you like to be in concentration camps? How many would you like to have seen murdered in the camps?
    Do you suppose that as time went on, the numbers could have become more apparent? 

    It is not likely that all numbers were initially known. Some articles just talk about German JW's, some articles talk about all JW's in concentration camps everywhere. Some articles talk about all that have died in Germany during Hitler's reign from execution, other violent acts, hunger, sickness or slave labor rather in concentration camps or not. Some only talk about those that died in German concentration camps rather executed or from harsh conditions. Some talk only about those executed in concentration camps. Some only talk about German JW's who refused to fight for in Hitler's army were executed. Some articles make a distinction between those in concentration camps that died and those that were executed in concentration camps. Some talk only about German JW's executed in Germany rather in concentration camps or not. Some talk about those in a specific year like the start of the war while others talk about a total number during Hitler's reign. There are different sources as well. For example this article gives some German numbers given by Friedrich Zipfel while also giving some separate information of those in Nazi camps in Austria.

    [Many of Jehovah’s Witnesses have surrendered their soul in behalf of their friends in obeying the law of love. A review of the book Kirchenkampf in Deutschland (Fight of the Churches in Germany), by Friedrich Zipfel, says regarding the Witnesses: “Ninety-seven percent of the members of this small religious group were victims of National Socialistic [Nazi] persecution. One third of them were killed, either by execution, other violent acts, hunger, sickness or slave labor. The severity of this subjection was without precedent and was the result of uncompromising faith which could not be harmonized with National Socialistic ideology.” In Austria, 25 percent of Jehovah’s Witnesses were executed, beaten to death, or died from disease or exhaustion in Nazi camps]

     Maybe you can take this article back to your hate mongering friends:

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008193

    DOCUMENTING NUMBERS OF VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST AND NAZI PERSECUTION

    Calculating the numbers of individuals who were killed as the result of Nazi policies is a difficult task. There is no single wartime document created by Nazi officials that spells out how many people were killed in the Holocaust or World War II.

    To accurately estimate the extent of human losses, scholars, Jewish organizations, and governmental agencies since the 1940s have relied on a variety of different records, such as census reports, captured German and Axis archives, and postwar investigations, to compile these statistics. As more documents come to light or as scholars arrive at a more precise understanding of the Holocaust, estimates of human losses may change.

    The single most important thing to keep in mind when attempting to document numbers of victims of the Holocaust is that no one master list of those who perished exists anywhere in the world.

    What follow are the current best estimates of civilians and disarmed soldiers killed by the Nazi regime and its collaborators.

    These estimates are calculated from wartime reports generated by those who implemented Nazi population policy, and postwar demographic studies on population loss during World War II



    ALSO: As far as your assertion that JW's were happy with the situation till the knocks came to the doors of the JWs, JW's were among the first thrown into camps. Of course, your pride want allow you to admit your error there either as it doesn't suit your slanderous agenda.
    https://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394663#2
    13. When was the first concentration camp established and who were the first inmates?
    Answer: The first concentration camp, Dachau, opened on March 22, 1933. The camp's first inmates were primarily political prisoners (e.g. Communists or Social Democrats); habitual criminals; homosexuals; Jehovah's Witnesses; and "anti-socials" (beggars, vagrants, hawkers). Others considered problematic by the Nazis (e.g. Jewish writers and journalists, lawyers, unpopular industrialists, and political officials) were also included.
    14. Which groups of people in Germany were considered enemies of the state by the Nazis and were, therefore, persecuted?
    Answer: The following groups of individuals were considered enemies of the Third Reich and were, therefore, persecuted by the Nazi authorities: Jews, Gypsies, Social Democrats, other opposing politicians, opponents of Nazism, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, habitual criminals, and "anti-socials" (e.g. beggars, vagrants, hawkers), and the mentally ill. Any individual who was considered a threat to the Nazis was in danger of being persecuted.


    Funny thing that Atheist often like to present themselves as being specially targeted while everything I have read seems to show that only atheist that were political opponents like some communist political groups were thrown in camps. Perhaps you can help me with that?

    What color badge did atheist wear, red for being a political prisoner or something else?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge


    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005378

    CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM IN NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS


    VICTIMS OF PERSECUTION
      June 7, 2018 6:33 AM MDT
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  • 135
    In case you had not noticed the quotes I gave above are from your own publications.
    Please show me where I (or anyone else here) has said that 'JW's were perpetrators just as involved in committing heinous crimes against humanity for Hitler' but it would come as no surprise if your committee had not killed more JWs than Hitler did through their idiotic  attitude to medical procedures.
    WHAT THE SWEET FCUK HAVE BIBLE TRANSLATIONS GOT TO DO WITH NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS?


    'Can't deal with your previous mud slinging accusations against JW's as history shows different than what you did so you have to go grab some more crap to sling?' This does not even make sense, what is it that you feel I 'did'? As far as mud slinging is concerned, ten I will never run out of ammunition to use against the JW, with the vast majority of it coming from your own publications

    Your 'How many would you like to be in concentration camps' is plain stupid, I would like it no more than you would and your 'How many would you like to have seen murdered in the camps?' likewise, ideally I think we could agree on that answer but given your views on blood transfusions, your number would most likely be higher than mine.

    As of yet I have not read the remainder of your comment as the opening was enough to show that you are simply making things up as you go along.
      June 7, 2018 5:37 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Your keeping up with the context of this thread is equal to your keeping up with the context of the articles. Just blind hatred. 

    Yes, the quotes were from JW publications but an honest person would consider the context.

    As far as JW's being perpetrators, did you not read the first comment you commented on?
    Texas said: "Didn't he just have to tweek the teachings of Protestant and Catholic Churches in Germany to get them to commit heinous crimes against humanity for him?"
    Your response: "He sure did not need to tweak your teachings ..."
    Subject: commit crimes against humanity.

    As far as medical procedures, I assume you are talking about blood transfusions. Obviously you have not done any research about the most up do date research showing that bloodless surgery is safer.

    As far as what HAVE BIBLE TRANSLATIONS GOT TO DO WITH NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS, you are the one that brought it up.  
    Quote from you: "...just as they made their own translation of the bible as that did not suit them either."
    June 6, 2018 1:06 PM


    This may be hard for you to keep up with but try to remember that you brought up blood transfusions so you don't feel the need to cuss and ask me what they have to do with NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

    Try to open your eyes from your blind hatred and do a little research.

    It seems that they have a habit of saying blood is safe, and then 10 years later find out there was a problem and then say it is safe now, and then the same thing, always safe now, but not 10 years ago. I wonder what the next one will be. https://www.baptisthealthsystem.com/facilities_nbh_news_detail/01/30/2008/what_is_bloodless_surgery_.aspx
    https://www.noblood.org/ Website about blood alternatives
    https://www.bloodbook.com/trans-tran.html Transfusion transmitted diseases - Bloodbook.com
    https://www.bloodbook.com/hep-c.html - Previous infections of Hepatitus C
    https://www.noblood.org/medical-articles-abstracts/4983-blood-transfusions-safe-medicine.html - Website about blood transfusion alternatives
    https://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/blood_transfusions_safe_medicine - Blood safe medicine?
    https://www.videojug.com/expertanswer/contact-transmission-of-hiv/can-i-get-hiv-through-a-blood-transfusion - Blood transfusions safer since the 1980's
    https://chapters.redcross.org/ca/norcal/phys/transfus_hepatitis.html - Blood safer since 1992, Redcross lookback
    https://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mycues/vpost?id=3031088 - Support group for hepatitus C, mostly recieved transfusions before 1992
    https://thewelltimedperiod.blogspot.com/2007/01/dangerous-female-blood-donors.html - Another danger of Blood Transfusions.
    https://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1994/05/01/88826/index.htm - Article from 1994 about people still being infected with HIV 10 years after testing implemented.
    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/PR/news/story.cfm?id=2293 - Transfusion increase blood clots in cancer patients.
    https://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=8351 - Millions in Egypt have Hepatitus C - February 2009
    https://manxlivertyhepc.spaces.live.com/ - Hepatitus C support group, many of which came from blood transfusion
    https://www.landofsixpeoples.com/news022/ns207253.htm Mother told that her 5-year old most likely got AIDS from a Blood Transfusion
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8640096 Transfusion acquired AIDS - Taiwan
    https://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/26/news/aids-cases-from-transfusions-give-rise-to-suits.html?sec=health - AIDS acquired through transfusion gives rise to suits. New York Times July 26, 1991
    https://www.bloodbook.com/part-3.html
    https://media.givebloodgivelife.org/pdf/sixteenyrold_consent_package.pdf List of Countries that if you recieved a blood transfusion in one of them, you cannot donate blood.
    https://www.latimes.com/news/local/cedars/la-me-cedars15jul15-vignettes,0,6345945,full.story Learning the truth, then facing it - Article about a girl who caught AIDS from transfusion
    https://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/03/nyregion/hunt-to-begin-for-recipients-of-aids-blood-in-the-region.html?sec=health 
    https://www.noblood.org/reasons-avoid-blood/
    https://w4.jonbarron.org/heart-health-program/05-12-2008.php Blood transfusions may have killed millions

    https://www.pennhealth.com/health_info/bloodless/blood_jchart.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodless_surgery
    https://www.pennmedicine.org/bloodless/ Center for Bloodless Medicine & Surgery

    https://www.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/eligibility-requirements/eligibility-criteria-topic#travel - Persons who were born or lived in certain countries in Western Africa, or who have had close contact with persons who were born in or who lived in certain West African countries are not eligible to donate. This requirement is related to concerns about HIV Group O. Learn more about HIV Group O, and the specific African countries where it is found.
    https://www.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/eligibility-requirements/eligibility-criteria-alphabetical-listing#arc7 - You are not eligible to donate if visited certain Countries during certain periods of time.

    https://wiki.noblood.org/PBS_documentary_Knocking_-_Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_Blood
    "In the 1980s and 1990s, headlines announced numerous lawsuits brought by victims of tainted-blood scandals and transfusion-matching errors. For instance, by 1985, about 47 percent of Canadian hemophiliacs became infected with HIV from contaminated coagulants. A jittery public read about similar scandals in France, Switzerland and Germany."

    https://www.mdnews.com/news/2011_04/bloodless-surgery-grows-in-popularity

    https://www.northjersey.com/news/012910_Englewood_Hospital_to_train_military_others_in_bloodless_surgery_techniques.html
    "...Bloodless medicine appeals to many doctors because it carries low risk of post-operative infection when compared with procedures requiring transfusions. It can also be useful during times of war or natural disasters when blood supplies are low or unavailable, said Dr. Aryeh Shander, executive medical director of the institute..."

    https://www.jonbarron.org/heart-health/problems-blood-transfusions
    Blood transfusions may have killed millions
    Transfusions increase the risk of complications and reduce survival rates
    The first study, which appears in the March 20th issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, essentially confirms the Duke study. It reports that heart surgery patients who receive transfusions with blood that has been stored more than 14 days are far likelier to suffer complications and may face significantly reduced survival rates -- both short and long term. The study of more than 9,000 patients in the US has shown that those given blood more than 14 days old are 65 percent more likely to die before discharge and 50 percent more likely to die within a year.

    Transfusions increase the risk of stroke
    A second study, published in November and conducted by scientists at the University of Bristol and the Bristol Heart Institute in the UK, found that patients who received a red blood cell transfusion experienced a three-fold increase in complications arising from lack of oxygen to key organs -- complications such as heart attack or stroke. The study looked at the association between red blood cell transfusion and adverse outcomes in over 8,500 cardiac surgery patients over eight years. The age of the blood used in the transfusions was not a factor in this study

    On the bright side, since the available tests for HIV do not always detect the Type O strain, all donor programs are required to question donors about possible HIV exposure, and to test donated blood for this virus. 


    https://www.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/eligibility-requirements/eligibility-criteria-alphabetical-listing#arc7
    "In-Depth Discussion of HIV Group O and Blood Donation
    Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) is the virus that causes AIDS. The virus can be transmitted through blood transfusion, so all donor programs are required to question donors about possible HIV exposure, and to test donated blood for this virus.
    There is a rare form of HIV called Type O that is found in western Africa. The available tests for HIV do not always detect the Type O strain. This means that blood programs must take special precautions to keep this virus out of the blood supply by not taking blood donations from those who have been where the virus is found."


      June 8, 2018 6:13 AM MDT
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  • 135

    This is getting rather confusing, I believe I did reply to you but someone took umbrage to the fact that I called your highly respected religious cul* and deleted my reply, so just to keep them happy I have edited it below. Incidentally I have also been accused of 'following' you, I have never understood why some of the religious folks never seem happy unless they feel persecuted.Of course the person who deleted the comment and accused me of 'following' you made no remark regarding you haunting old posts for comments made by myself and others like some stalker.

    DELETED COMMENT
    Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why it is that your your highly respected religious group likes to play free and loose with history, yes its own history rewriting it to say what they want when the want, this covers everything from your damned failed prophecies to the damned holocaust and people like you swallow it. The following are extracts from JW publications covering the holocaust and you can clearly see what I mean about rewriting history.Your highly respected religious group has so many lies in its publications that it is hardly any surprise that no one outside your highly respected religious group takes anything you say without a very large pinch of salt. You do not even know what is going on in your own highly respected religious group, the committee says it and you sheep follow blindly, just remember what a shepherd does to his sheep, he protects them while fleecing them right up till it is time to slaughter them.

    It is also a shame that so many children have been abused both sexually and mentally and this not reported thus leaving the perpetrators to continue preying on innocent children both inside and outside their highly respected religious group, that others have died or had their lives endangered by by a committee of men who forbid accepting blood even when life is endangered, this being 'done due to their understanding of their beliefs'.

      June 8, 2018 9:58 AM MDT
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  • 14795
    Well ,he certainly acted like God and loved nothing better than killing anyone who didn't follow or believe in him....
    He even bumped off close members of his own family to get his own way....
    If they stood side by side ,it would be kind of impossible to say who was the worst out of both of them...
      June 1, 2018 2:39 PM MDT
    2

  • 5808
    why not?
    some people will believe anything.
    ...haven't read the book Mein Kampf
    so don't know what it's about,
    but from his actions I think
    He was inspired by his warped mind
    and twisted Ego playing the part of God
    in his Delusion.

      June 1, 2018 5:32 PM MDT
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  • 13251
    I read it for a class called Personality and Leadership in business school. The title means "My Struggle" and provides an interesting look into Hitler's mind and personality.
      June 1, 2018 9:56 PM MDT
    1

  • 5391
    In a sense, Hitler did inspire a belief system. An entire country fell under the Nazi spell. 
    How else do you convince millions of average people to fight an all-out war of your creation, and participate in the genocide of millions of your enemies. 

    A cult. 

      June 1, 2018 9:35 PM MDT
    3

  • 1393
    Q "Suppose Hitler asserted he was inspired by God to compose his book 'Mein Kampf' do you think could have become basis for a new religion?"
    ======================================================================================


    First a philosophy doesn't have to have a claim to be inspired by God for it to become a basis for a religion. Buddhism is an example.

    Secondly, Nazism, advocated by the author of that book, did have an almost ritual mass following. So in that sense alone it was a new religion.

    Lastly, we all have life philosophies and routines that we adhere to and live by. So in that sense everyone, without exception, follows a religion of some sort.
      June 2, 2018 8:42 PM MDT
    1

  • 13395
    Yeah I like the 'live and let live' philosophy,  'do as you will but harm no-one' sort of ideas, 'honesty is the best policy but it must pay'... This post was edited by Kittigate at June 3, 2018 9:53 AM MDT
      June 3, 2018 2:10 AM MDT
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  • 1393
    those are the principles you believe in and maybe live by too, so that's your religion. Kittigatism, perhaps.
      June 3, 2018 9:56 AM MDT
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  • 13395
    What I believe in (or don't believe in actually) would be No-Name because it's cheaper and just as good if not BETTER. 
      June 3, 2018 10:31 AM MDT
    1

  • 1393
    "Kittigatism" is more personalised and has a sort of ring to it, like atheism, Buddhism or communism,  compared to "No-Name". But it's your exclusive religion, so the right to name it is exclusively yours, of course. :) :)
      June 3, 2018 11:46 AM MDT
    1

  • 13395
    When anybody asks me what is my religion is i'll say 'no-name'. If they ask what that means I say it's atheism because atheism is not a religion. 

    If a more suitable term comes up then i'll use that.
      June 3, 2018 4:47 PM MDT
    1