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Discussion » Questions » Science and Technology » If humans absolutely HAD TO have a microchip embedded somewhere under the skin, where is the absolute worst place on your body for it to be?
Randy D

If humans absolutely HAD TO have a microchip embedded somewhere under the skin, where is the absolute worst place on your body for it to be?

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Posted - July 17, 2018
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Responses


  • 14795
    Right next to the Mirco Fish....:(|D
      July 17, 2018 6:37 AM MDT
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  • 53519

      Wow, is THAT what they're calling it these days?

    ~
      July 17, 2018 6:43 AM MDT
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  • 14795
    I've heard that's true in some cases....lol
      July 17, 2018 6:51 AM MDT
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  • 13071
    Makes it kind of hard to Tuna round. ;O
      July 17, 2018 7:48 AM MDT
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  • 44645
    Either end of the alimentary canal.
      July 17, 2018 7:14 AM MDT
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  • 13071
    On the ball of your foot where it would interfere with the comfortable wearing of Stilettos. 
      July 17, 2018 7:47 AM MDT
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  • 44645
    Uh...comfortable stilettos?
      July 17, 2018 7:48 AM MDT
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  • 13071
    Yes. They make them in the same place where they sell comfortable Thongs. ;+
      July 17, 2018 7:49 AM MDT
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  • 44645
    I don't understand...please send a photo of you modeling them.
      July 17, 2018 8:02 AM MDT
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  • 13071
    Ill have it to you yesterday. ;)
      July 17, 2018 8:23 AM MDT
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  • 1305
    They give off RF radiation so it would have to be an Orwellian kind of government that can force someone to have a device in their home let alone a  Radio Frequency Identification under their skin.

    RF radiation is classed as 2B possibly carcinogen, and on par with car exhaust fumes, lead, and asbestos. The World Health Organisation state that it is everyone's right to limit their exposure to RF radiation, can't do that if a chip is forced on you.  The environment is already saturated with RF radiation from mobiles, wi-fi, phone towers, TV, radio, microwaves, etc so on so forth, which is to date hasn't been calculated but is expected to be far beyond the given guidelines, adding more RF to the mix is just subjected us to future generations with increased cancer rates.

    The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) is part of the World Health Organization. One of its goals is to identify causes of cancer. IARC has stated that there is limited evidence that RF radiation causes cancer in animals and humans, and classifies RF radiation as “possibly carcinogenic to humans” (Group 2B). This was based on the finding of a possible link in at least one study between cell phone use and a specific type of brain tumor. IARC considers the evidence overall to be “limited” because of the conflicting findings and methodologic limitations in some of the studies.


      July 17, 2018 10:29 AM MDT
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  • 16819
    Not necessarily, otherwise microchipping pets would be considered cruelty. On the contrary, in many jurisdictions it's mandatory.
      July 23, 2018 3:12 AM MDT
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  • 3719
    Radiation can be carcinogenic... yes, but at what radiation densities and exposure times?

    I'd certainly want no r.f. identity chip in me as if I were a dog or a horse, whether it's genuinely hazardous or not; but many people now seem to have such low regard for personal privacy that they can't really object to being micro-chipped!  
      July 18, 2018 4:56 PM MDT
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  • 1305
    I disagree Durdle, most RF devices are sold to us with safety information and directions, so that comes with CHOICE and us such these companies can omit liability, an RF device that is forced onto the populous abdicates liability on the individual as that CHOICE is denied and leaves it on the heads of the government, what you are dealing with then becomes Orwellian because the government is forcibly exposing people to RF radiation which is a 2B carcinogen, without their consent (which is what they are currently doing with smart meters), there are also numerous violations of the Nurumberg Code, as people would be "the experiment" since there are no tests to assure of no long term damage, or the accumulation of RF in the environment, but there are numerous studies that RF radiation causes heart tumours, liver tumours, brain tumours, lowered melatonin, and actually heats and changes the bodies atoms, even at lower level exposure. This post was edited by kjames at July 22, 2018 9:44 AM MDT
      July 22, 2018 9:42 AM MDT
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  • 3719
    I accept what you say but with respect you've raised an extra point, safety, as well as the desirability I questioned in my previous post.

    No Government would sensibly force people to be irradiated because that would be as self-defeating as it is cruel, and certainly not in a Nazi-style "experiment", but I can imagine it would seek to convince us the risk of the health hazard is outweighed by what it sees as the social benefits of the data-recording (and tracking??) system. Whether those benefits exist is another matter, I don't believe any do; and I can't help thinking this is a solution raised by "because we can", and looking for a problem for Governments to solve.

    I cannot say if these micro-chips really are as dangerous as made out but it's certainly not a gamble worth taking, and anyway I would object very strongly to compulsory chipping because I would not be certain who was using what information about me, for what purpose. I do not know what is or could be encoded on them, I do not know if they can be used as trackers assuming the authorities had the time, resources and will to do that to everyone; but I suspect the manufacturers and pro- chip politicians would be very coy about anything we could see as unreasonable. 

    They cannot be compared to so-called "smart" meters - a term that only shows the low literacy and basic technical knowledge of too many politicians and senior business people. Nor do I regard such meters as "Orwellian" or intrusive because they only tell the suppliers how much electricity and gas the household is using, but at any time rather than the same information en bloc and rather ad-hoc over a few months. It does not say how you are using the electricity and gas, and so does not tell the supplier any more than what it knows now. The supplier gleans less knowledge of you than the supermarket does from what you bought for that £50 there last Saturday - or indeed what social network sites do when they supply your Internet use to the advertising agencies for business income. Sometimes unintentionally amusingly so.

    Incidentally I do not place much faith in the publicity point made about the watt-meter display. You save gas and electricity only by using less, and more wisely. Also, merely knowing your home is presently consuming say, 500W, does not mean much unless you know what is a Watt, and the differences between fuel, energy and power, and you change your habits and interests! Most of your saving will come from your common-sense and self-discipline, not from a Governmentally-enforced watt-meter on the kitchen wall. 

    There is a genuine concern about "smart" meters, and one I share, and that is of criminals eavesdropping on their built-in telephone to assess whether homes are occupied or not. The Government has been asked this by various people but is noticeably shy of answering. 

    Frankly, like you although without the fear-factor, I do not want a "smart" meter - and the only "chips" I want come freshly-fried and wrapped around a ditto fish.



    [Edited to correct a typo that had reversed my intention... but afore anyone makes invidious comparisons, US Presidential corrections repeat the error!]

    This post was edited by Durdle at July 23, 2018 4:54 PM MDT
      July 22, 2018 1:12 PM MDT
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  • 1305
    Thanks for responding Durdle. The hacking has already been proven, as they've already been hacked.  

    https://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/04/fbi-smart-meter-hacks-likely-to-spread/

    Spain 2014

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/30/smart_meter_hackable_for_free_electricity_say_security_reserachers/

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4345644/Apple-hack-cyber-criminals-raise-ransom-700-000.html


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29643276

    https://www.emfacts.com/2017/01/when-smart-meters-get-hacked/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/6257827/Smart-energy-meters-in-homes-could-be-hacked.html

    Smart meters in homes could be hacked

    Plans to install gas and electricity smart meters in every home by 2020 pose a "national   cyber security risk" because the devices could be hacked into, one of   the government's own data security consultants has warned. 

    Experts say the compulsory monitors, designed to reduce energy consumption, could be programmed to cripple the national grid or to steal valuable household data, breaching the privacy of millions.

    The government wants every home in Britain to have the devices, which give users information on how to save energy and send real-time data direct to utility companies, eliminating the need for customers to stay at home for meter readings or to receive estimated bills.
    Experts say the compulsory monitors, designed to reduce energy consumption, could be programmed to cripple the national grid or to steal valuable household data, breaching the privacy of millions.

    The government wants every home in Britain to have the devices, which give users information on how to save energy and send real-time data direct to utility companies, eliminating the need for customers to stay at home for meter readings or to receive estimated bills.

    They also pave the way for a national 'smart grid', backed by David Cameron's Conservatives, which would use the data to manage national demand more efficiently and advise households when it is cheapest to switch on appliances.

    However, smart meters can be infected with a 'worm', similar to the viruses that attack personal computers, which can spread from one smart meter to the whole grid.

    Once hacked, the devices could infect Britain's entire grid or cause individual customers to be cut off.
    The government has been warned it must tighten the security of the devices to protect households and small businesses before proceeding with the scheme, which is being trialled in 17,500 homes in the UK.

    "There are already around 40 million smart meters in use worldwide and, even at this early stage, we have seen a number of security breaches," said Ian Watts, head of energy and utilities at Detica, the British data security firm. "These have included insecure meters, hacking of customer details, denial of service attacks and suspected infiltration by foreign intelligence services."

    He added: "The utilities network has been defined by the Government as a key part of the Critical National Infrastructure. The impact of any large-scale power cut could not only put lives at risk but be potentially paralysing for the economy. Whilst there are many potential benefits of smart meters that justify their introduction, we must be aware it also brings new risks and should therefore 'design in' security from the outset to guard against this."

    Detica, which already advises the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Justice, has submitted its warnings to a consultationn being carried out by the Department for Energy and Climate Change (DECC).

    The submission said a smart grid would "provide significant benefits to GB PLC [but] may expose the Critical National Infrastructure to a greater degree of risk through cyber-attack." It added: "The Dutch and German smart metering programmes were disrupted by data protection challenges from customers, civil rights groups and politicians. GB may follow suit as public concerns over the 'surveillance society' grow."

    Another security firm, IOActive, proved the weakness of smart meters by developing its own worm, successfully infiltrating a network of the devices in the United States.

    "We can switch off hundreds of thousands of homes potentially at the same time," said Mike Davis, a senior consultant at the Seattle-based firm.

    Consumer Focus, the watchdog, has also expressed concern about the privacy implications of the meters, which collect data on energy consumption to help households identify which appliances are most expensive to run and at which times of day.

    It also says consumers are "at risk of unfair, excessive, inequitable and inefficient charging" because energy companies could use the new data to introduce more complex tariffs to maximise profits at peak times.

    The government has yet to decide who will pay for replacing Britain's 47 million meters, which could cost up to £8bn over the next 20 years. Its preferred option is for the cost to be met by energy firms, who stand to gain the most from meters as they remove the need to employ meter readers or calculate estimated bills.

    Steve Brain, analyst with metering firm Meter-U, said the security concerns were similar to those with online banking or mobile phones. "It is really no different from any other data communications issue, and we would expect to see similar security measures being taken with the meters," he said.

    He added that the amount of data generated by the smart meters, which measure household consumption every 30 minutes, meant it would have to be "carefully managed".

    He said: "Currently the data from over 45 million meters is collected twice a year and then processed. With the new meters there will be 48 readings every 24 hours from each meter which is a massive increase in data processing."

    The DECC said it was aware of the security concerns, adding that the specification of smart meters and the extent of their application in the home had yet to be decided.

      July 22, 2018 2:42 PM MDT
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  • 3719
    Thank you KJames.

    A chilling prospect indeed, and shows how very powerful schemes can be pushed through on the basis of supposed benefits with no proper consideration of effects, gains and losses.

    I wonder what's going to happen when all those thousands of homes are also required to recharge all those battery cars in future? That is, where that is feasible - many households including mine would be unable to do that. I ask because at present, the charger uses the normal mains and single meter, but somehow the Treasury will have to recoup the revenue lost as liquid-fuel sales fall. My guess is that at some theoretically-practical time to suit the Treasury, the vehicle electricity will become just as heavily taxed. That would require a separate meter, at least doubling the security risk by giving the hackers a fuller picture of household movements.

    They can't compare it to telephone security, because the "smart" meter is compulsory and practically continuous. You are free to turn your 'phone on and off, and use it, as you choose. It only works as tracker, for example, or a shops' radio-advertisement receiver, if you let it be used as such. Steve Brain's attempt at reassurance is basically useless because we all know the criminals work continuously to overtake commercial security systems; and these are systems protecting transactions over which we have some choice and control.
      July 23, 2018 3:07 AM MDT
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  • 1305
    These are points I have made Durdle, smart meters withdraw choice and yes criminals are way ahead of the game, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they work hand in glove with the inventors. I wonder when the first ransom on the smart meter network will happen, and I wonder who will pay that ransom?
    I agree completely with regards to the electric cars, I know someone that cannot ride in a Tesla because he has a pacemaker and whenever he is around it, it gives him a shock. This is also prevalent with smart meters and those who use other devices for their health.

    What about all those car electric car batteries, how good are they for the environment? And the airplanes can't go electric, and in the UK they are looking to build another runway, obviously the crap falling out the sky doesn't matter?
    The Vault 7 document that was leaked to the public also shows that electric cars can be used by the government in assassinations, nice to know the control of your car can be hacked.

    Are people really going to give up the sound of a car engine, I mean if you like cars like I do, that's the whole life of the thing, can't imagine going to watch the cars racing when they don't make a sound.  The Isle Of Man TT isn't going to be as exciting to watch when all the bike races are electric.
      July 23, 2018 10:41 AM MDT
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  • 3719
    Generally a very gloomy and rather frightening prospect all round.

    You mention electric aeroplanes... One Scandinavian company is already experimenting with them.

    The huge numbers of batteries... From what materials will they be made, and how recoverable are they when the battery has "died"? What of the fuel needed to extract, process, transport those raw materials?

    I fear the whole issue is examined at Governmental level, by people who look only at the end result and not the methods and consequences. In time I believe society will shrink to rather poorly-connected, very parochial communities; very many motorists will be forced off the roads; huge swathes of the country's cultural and social life will disappear. We might or might not end up with a cleaner environment, we might or might not affect the climate; but either way will come at enormous costs that the politicians and still less the more rabid "green" campaigners, do not, cannot or will not see.   

    As for motor racing, as clearly a motor-sports enthusiast you will know that already, electric racing cars are indeed being built. I don't know about the bikes, but I'm sure that will happen too. And I agree, polite whirr is no substitute for throaty roar!
      July 23, 2018 4:24 PM MDT
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  • 1305

    The bikes are already built they race then at the Isle of Man TT but what a disappointment, certainly go fast but cannot manage as many laps And.... no engine noise which I really cannot stand.  I'm surprised more people haven't been knocked over by the electric or hybrid cars, the irony will be that they'll end up having to add a noise to them.

    If push comes to shove I'm not bending to their will, I'll go back to horse and cart if I have to!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN5O2yybvEY




    This post was edited by kjames at July 23, 2018 4:52 PM MDT
      July 23, 2018 4:33 PM MDT
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  • 3719
    Horse and cart? Think of all that 'oss ordure polluting the streets! :-)

    (Actually that was a genuine problem 100 years & more ago!)

    I wonder how far into the future there will still be reasonably accessible supplies of liquid fuel and i.c.-engine spares?
      July 23, 2018 4:41 PM MDT
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  • 1305
    (laughing), yes certainly brings up a lot of questions!!
      July 23, 2018 4:53 PM MDT
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  • 16819
    The left buttock. You wouldn't be able to sit comfortably.
      July 23, 2018 3:14 AM MDT
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  • 3719

    What inspired the original question? I gather these chips are being made, with their manufacturers burbling enthusiastically about building access security, medical information and what-not, but is there something darker going on, or just the worrying possibility of it going on in the future?

      July 23, 2018 4:44 PM MDT
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