I'm not convinced that would help. Church attendance has been on a steady decline 

If God actually existed might be a big help too.

If He showed up, it would help even more. 

That's interesting.
Expert guests on the Drum, (a nightly discussion of current affairs on Australian national TV (ABC),) were discussing the same phenomenon last night. Surveys have found that the exodus from churches, synagogues, Vedantist salas and mosques is due to the prevalence of sexual predation by religious clerics and teachers on the children of their schools and congregations. The faithful have become cynical about the hypocrisies and evils committed by their leaders.
The effects of serial abuse have had long-term effects: PTSD, sexual dysfunction, addiction, depression and many suicides.
It has left in its wake ripple effects of deep mourning and distress throughout our society.
In Australia, a recent Royal Commission into institutional responses to child abuse found that across the board in all religions, the senior hierarchies have protected and covered up for their juniors when evidence of assault was discovered - right up to the level of the Pope. Even the current Pope Francis has been noted for his insipid responses and lack of investigations and acceptance of responsibility. And it's not just Christians. It cuts across all faiths and includes tax-payer-run public institutions for orphans and fosterlings.

But on the other hand - it seems that the religious right has been on the increase when it comes to politics.
Does this mean that while formal attendance is down, private faith has increased? This post was edited by inky at September 10, 2019 7:33 AM MDT

Thanks for all of that info, BW. 
I don't think you could have possibly stated that any clearer. I have thought for quite some time that the entire concept of mass religion is nothing more than a guilt-ridden exercise in coercion smothered in  PTSD sauce.

In regards to Politics, and the last two sentences...
Religion is being used for political purposes but for all the wrong purposes. It's my opinion that is nothing more than a ploy by social conservatives to justify & legalize hate, discrimination, and bigotry under the guise of religious freedom. 

You have touched upon a very sore subject with me on this, bookworm. I despise the pompous, lying hypocrites who claim to be pious and righteous, but they cast a ballot for that disgusting ogre in the Oval office who proclaims himself to be the "King Of The Jews".  Look at this vile picture... 
I will happily vomit on anyone who claims that pig is doing God's work. 
It is astoundingly audacious of these people,  who proclaim to be high and mighty in their belief in God and the sanctity Life.  They do not believe in feeding and housing the poor, educating children, providing healthcare for everyone, providing shelter to those in distress, and are jubilantly eager to kill people as punishment for capital crimes.

I read just this morning that victims of Hurricane Dorian from the Bahamas are being turned back from entering the US under Trump's orders. He claims that people are coming through the Bahamas to gain illegal access to the US. These people have nothing but the clothes on their backs.  Where is the empathy toward our brothers and sisters?  

So I say once more,  Faith & Religion in politics is nothing more than a means to justify & legalize hate, discrimination, and bigotry under the guise of religious freedom. It has nothing to do with God

I apologize if I came across as a vulgarian in any portion of this post. lol 
 




This post was edited by Jon at September 10, 2019 1:55 PM MDT

That image is scary. It makes it appear as if Trump is simultaneously an object for blessing and of veneration.
As if superstitious rites will save the day.

You are never the vulgarian, dear Jon.

I agree that religion is often used as a justifier for political and often economic motives.

But I think the issues are more complex.

There used to be a character on this site called Old-School.
I think he got bumped out for being a bit too provocative, but he was a brainiac who could think with compassion and justice.

He pointed out that all religions can lean either in the direction of compassion or of control.
- Those who are liberally inclined choose a brand of faith which encourages egalitarianism, consultation, fairness, and assistance for those unable to help themselves. The Uniting Church, for instance, welcomes practising gays, runs methadone clinics and rehab centres, accepts women as ministers, supports women's rights, refugees, homeless people, family planning (abortion and contraception), is anti-racist and pro cultural diversity blended with harmonious integration, and runs numerous overseas charity missions which do not seek to preach or convert. It welcomes anyone who wishes to a faith that preaches "Love one another as thyself." It lives its own doctrines of compassion. Some of the more mystical faiths avoid politics altogether. They focus on the individual's path to wisdom, unconditional love, and transcendence of ignorance.
- Others, the conservatives or religious right-wing, feel more comfortable in a hierarchy, not minding whether they are a leader or follower, so long as they have the security of knowing where they stand. These types gravitate towards patriarchal and top-down styles of religions.
- In other words, a doctrine can never be a fixed truth. Rather, it is manipulated to serve the purposes of those who create the religion or its sect.

Part of the problem lies in the citizen's constitutional right to their religion of choice. As far as I know, this right does not take precedence over criminal behaviours - yet it condones faiths in which the set-ups for criminality are built-in - faiths which mandate, for instance, Old Testament standards of morality. 
In the OT, Noah invents slavery. Nothing in the New Testament mitigates against it. In the OT, wives and children are chattels, they are owned in the same way as animals; the patriarch has the right of life and death over them. Orthodox Islam in Saudi Arabia still practises all of this.
Most modern conservatives would not approve of these measures - yet they do not see that other forms of injustice condoned in the OT are just as cruel and barbarous in their effects.

Part of the problem is not just that personalities are attracted to religions that reinforce their existing preferences.
It is that social change is as slow as glaciers. Revolutions tend to be met with counter-revolutions because humanity is not good at adapting to new mores.
The snail's revolution tends to succeed. The avant-guard, even in this age of IT, tends to be 100 to 150 years ahead of the laggards.

Conservatives tend fight with Machiavelian strategies - much of what they do is behind the scenes, underground, long-term and tightly tied to economics.
In wealth, power. Might makes right, etc.

Since liberal values cannot permit Machiavelli's methods, we must use research, evidence, logic, and open persuasion based on the equal best interests of both majoirites and minorities.





This post was edited by inky at September 10, 2019 9:22 PM MDT

I much prefer Dionysian celebratory, myself. I find it rather interesting that what you describe is typically a wonderful evening out on the town with friends enjoying the nightlife.  That is a religious format I can stand behind. 

I've cussed on a Sunday
I've cheated and I've lied
I've fallen down from grace
A few too many times
But I find holy redemption
When I put this car in drive
Roll the windows down and turn up the dial

Can I get a hallelujah
Can I get an amen
Feels like the Holy Ghost running through ya
When I play the highway FM
I find my soul revival
Singing every single verse
Yeah I guess that's my church

When Hank brings the sermon
And Cash leads the choir
It gets my cold cold heart burning
Hotter than a ring of fire
When this wonderful world gets heavy
And I need to find my escape
I just keep the wheels rolling, radio scrolling
'Til my sins wash away

Can I get a hallelujah
Can I get an amen
Feels like the Holy Ghost running through ya
When I play the highway FM
I find my soul revival
Singing every single verse
Yeah I guess that's my church

MY CHURCH
I'm so glad you posted this! What a treat it was to find this with you. 
 Can I hear an "Amen"
 Let's dance

Did you know that a Trump is a slang word for Fart in England ...My dad use to tell my mum that one of my younger brothers/sisters or me had farted while sat on him ... my mum would always correct him and say "I think you mean Trump".   Lol


Simply love your new name by the way....lol 

Hey.  They have wine. What else do you need? 

But only the priests get that. Paid for by the parishioners’ money (in the plate). 
Where’s ours? I’m gonna want a few swigs to wash down the BS.

NOPE.  Not any more.  Everyone gets a drink now.  At least he Catholics do in most Parishes.  Maybe they have grape juice if you are an alkie.  This says Eastern Orthodox, but I have seen it served in many Non Eastern Catholic churches as well.  

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Communion Rites in the Catholic Church

This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at September 10, 2019 12:45 PM MDT

So the idea is sinking in, but apparently not enough to fill the pews. I said open bar. 
Only so much nonsense can be condoned absent inebriation. 

Careful.  What if you get drunk enough and see the LIGHT?????

This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at September 10, 2019 7:53 AM MDT

...and food

Brother, Do you truly believe that only "Witches, Shamans, and the Vitus crowd"  (whatever that refers to) are the only people who dance during worship?  I am totally perplexed. lol   



This post was edited by Jon at September 10, 2019 1:49 PM MDT

Saint Vitus' Dance is an alternative name for the movement disorder Sydenham's chorea (chorea minor). This condition presents as jerky, uncoordinated movements of the face, feet, and hands, and sometimes the limbs. Feb 25 2019