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Discussion » General » Religion » Is Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 saying that we were created to live miserably and wish we were never born?

Is Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 saying that we were created to live miserably and wish we were never born?

Posted - October 20, 2019

Responses


  • 17364
    This is the rambling of someone, presumably Solomon, who comes to the conclusion that no matter how good we are or attempt to be, we will die.  So, knowing that, there is no happiness as a live person on this Earth.  The words you read are not God's but Solomon's.  He goes into a depression because he feels like life and its struggles are all in vain.  That is the most recognizable part of Eccesiastes.  In a nutshell, we obey God and keep the law and find happiness the best  we can while doing so. 

    Shouldn't knowing that our time on Earth is short encourage us to find happiness, rather than to drown in sorrow?    
      October 20, 2019 7:27 PM MDT
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  • 492
    I like your honest answer.
    But, it seems that you agree with the words directed by Solomon (not God's), that because we live in such a miserable Earth, we need to search for happiness and need to be encouraged to find it. You agree then, that it is a pool of sorrow, in which we drown in, out of nature. 
      October 21, 2019 4:35 AM MDT
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  • 17364
    You might be new here.  Remember though, don't put words in my mouth.  I meant exactly what I said.  There was no hidden secret message.

    No one talked about a miserable world.  Solomon simply had a hard time coming to terms with his own mortality, regardless of how "good" he was. This post was edited by Thriftymaid at October 22, 2019 3:28 AM MDT
      October 21, 2019 6:00 PM MDT
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  • 5391

    This is clearly the opinion of the author. Someone with a dim view of the world they lived in. Someone who either couldn’t find or hadn’t seen much joy in their own life. 

    We either make our lives what they become, or allow them to be whatever happens to us. It seems most fitting to be grateful in the extreme for having lived at all, and celebrate the days we’re given.  

     

      October 20, 2019 8:11 PM MDT
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  • 492
    I'm sure this author was inspired by the same great burning bush who calls itself, I AM, as many other authors were. 
      October 21, 2019 4:38 AM MDT
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  • 5391

    Yea, inspired. I say the wide disparity of “inspiration“ demonstrates how so many differing denominations have sprung from the same basic source material. 
    How one can be so boldly dismissive about this, the only existence we can be sure of, is less a testament of any holy inspiration than of mental disturbance. Perhaps they are the same thing.  

    That ancient scribes were complicit in pushing this regressive narrative is testament to a lack of inspiration on their part, IMO.

    This post was edited by Don Barzini at October 21, 2019 9:36 AM MDT
      October 21, 2019 6:41 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    So then your idea of "inspiration" is everybody in the same denomination all following the same rules and no individuality?  To you will and self-determination and a personal relationship with God are indicators of "mental disturbance"?  
      October 21, 2019 9:39 AM MDT
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  • 5391

    Generally speaking, no.

    What I find disturbing and the product of mental disturbance is the denigration of life itself. Reputedly good people promoting death and hoping for the end of the world. This is purely sociopathic, and as ”inspiration” it is as misguided as it wicked. 

    Self-determination is great, and I am all about people exercising their will to better themselves and their lives, but to hide behind “personal relationships” with imaginary characters based on fallacious dogma is a form of willful self-deceit.  

    Would it not be even more inspired to intelligently challenge the dogmatic nonsense of the past (I refer here specifically to the verses cited in the Q) instead of just swallowing what the purveyors of this narrative feed us...

    This post was edited by Don Barzini at October 21, 2019 2:44 PM MDT
      October 21, 2019 12:04 PM MDT
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  • 13251
    The bible is an inanimate object and thus incapable of "saying" anything. I have no idea why so many folks take it literally and fail to realize that it's just an amalgamation of stories and rules written by human beings who were just as full of it as anybody else.
      October 20, 2019 8:19 PM MDT
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  • 492
    How true it is.
    I've tried telling people who knocked on my door once, with suits and ties, and with questions they already had answers for, that the biible is not to be taken literally, but as a set of guidelines to become better people. 
      October 21, 2019 4:45 AM MDT
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  • 13251
    If they knocked on your door with suits and ties, how did you hear the knocking? LOL.
      October 21, 2019 5:09 AM MDT
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  • 492
     got it
      October 21, 2019 5:15 PM MDT
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  • 46117

    In traditional Jewish texts and throughout church history (up to the 18th and 19th centuries), King Solomon is named as the author, but modern scholars reject this. Textually, the book is the musings of a King of Jerusalem as he relates his experiences and draws lessons from them, often self-critical. The author, who is not named anywhere in the book, or in the whole of the Bible, introduces a "Kohelet" whom he identifies as the son of David (1:1). The author does not use his own "voice" throughout the book again until the final verses (12:9–14), where he gives his own thoughts and summarises what "the Kohelet" has spoken. It emphatically proclaims all the actions of man to be inherently "hevel" (a word meaning "vapor" or "breath", but often interpreted as "insubstantial", "vain", or "futile") […] as the lives of both wise and foolish men end in death. While Qoheleth clearly endorses wisdom as a means for a well-lived earthly life, he is unable to ascribe eternal meaning to it. In light of this perceived senselessness, he suggests that one should enjoy the simple pleasures of daily life such as eating, drinking, and taking enjoyment in one's work, which are gifts from the hand of God. The book concludes with the injunction: "Fear God, and keep his commandments; for that is the whole duty of everyone" (12:13).

    Ecclesiastes has had a deep influence on Western literature. It contains several phrases that have resonated in British and American culture, and was quoted by Abraham Lincoln addressing Congress in 1862. American novelist Thomas Wolfe wrote:

    "[O]f all I have ever seen or learned, that book seems to me the noblest, the wisest, and the most powerful expression of man's life upon this earth—and also the highest flower of poetry, eloquence, and truth. I am not given to dogmatic judgments in the matter of literary creation, but if I had to make one I could say that Ecclesiastes is the greatest single piece of writing I have ever known, and the wisdom expressed in it the most lasting and profound."[1]

      October 21, 2019 8:17 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    Do I get asker's pick now?????
      October 21, 2019 8:18 PM MDT
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  • 13395
    Means we will be free from religion and politics. 
      October 21, 2019 6:08 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    No.  You are saying it.  Perhaps you should put the Bible down for now and go shopping for your own salvation.  Inner peace is much better than reading someone else's diatribe from thousands of years ago.  Jeez Louise.


    You need to invest in some Kombucha and start living pro instead of anti.  Forget penicillin and go probiotic.  Change your avatar name to PROBIOTIC and you won't need any BIBLE because you will love being alive and feel GOD every day. This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at November 11, 2019 7:33 PM MST
      October 21, 2019 12:36 PM MDT
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  • 1305

    The Author is examining life, and concludes that all actions of man are vanity and fleeting whether wise or foolish. But he does endorse wisdom as a well lived life on earth even though he cannot ascribe an eternal meaning to it. In light of the senselessness he states that man should still enjoy the pleasures of daily life, eating, drinking, and enjoyment of work, which are gifts from God. It concludes to Fear God, and keep his commandments for that is the duty of everyone.  

    Of course, the New Testament is very different and promises a comforter..

    John 14:15-26 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

    I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

    Judas (not Iscariot) asked Him, “Lord, why are You going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world?”Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. Whoever does not love Me does not keep My words. The word that you hear is not My own, but it is from the Father who sent Me.All this I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.

     

      October 21, 2019 4:19 PM MDT
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  • 4631

    Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 New International Version 

    And I declared that the dead,
        who had already died,
    are happier than the living,
        who are still alive.
    But better than both
        is the one who has never been born,
    who has not seen the evil
        that is done under the sun.

    No -- only stating the obvious, that suffering is inevitable in life.

    Think about it.
    We must desire drink, food, shelter etc in order to motivate us to do the work required to obtain it.
    We feel pleasure and satisfaction when desires are fulfilled; the feeling slowly diminishes till desire arises again and the cycle repeats.
    We suffer to the degree that our basic needs are unfulfilled. It is not always possible to meet all needs, therefore suffering is inevitable.
    The only way out is through the cultivation of profound insight and equanimity. (Or death or non-birth.)

    Every physical sensation and every emotion evolved because it increased the probability of enhancing the well-being and thriving of life.
    We humans make a hash of it when we misunderstand the internal cues and respond inappropriately.
    Our ignorance often takes us too far into greed, anger, etc.

    We weren't created for the purpose of suffering. Rather, suffering is necessary in order to live.

      October 22, 2019 12:17 AM MDT
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