Why does Islam claim to be a religion of peace when it has caused so much trouble in the world?

You are too kind.

Just pointing out that our opinions differ.

But I have noticed that religions are made up of people---some of whom display far more discretion than others.

It is the fault of religion when the books of the religions instruct it's followers to do so. 

Do you believe everything you read?

That would be scary.

Absolutely.  I read these books and without the blind faith ignorance.

If you want to pretend to be so advanced then  come with it.  Bring the quotes, verifiable facts, and historical accounts.   We're waiting.

Thank you for replying. It was a brilliant and enlightening rebuttal.

Or....not so much.

But reality is not determined by either argument, debate, or vote.

We differ.  One of us is right.  It would appear that you are chomping at the bit for me to "bring" (it on).

Usually, nothing can be said that will compel belief when one has so much invested one's convictions. 

Total waste of time for both of us.

Translation:   I've got nothing.  So I'll answer with  another vacuous Tom Jackson original.

Next you'll be proclaiming that you are "just as smart as me."

You are reading from an old script typical of people with closed minds.

(I left out the "closed minds" comment from my above answer.  If I had included it, perhaps I would have avoided having to post this comment.)

I don't know you so no I wont.  So go ahead with your little logical fallacy attempt.  Obviously you are willing to make such uninformed jumps in conclusion about others though.  So you must be the smartest.

Yes,  non faithful in Abraham's God  are the ones " reading from an old script"  and have the "closed minds".. LOL

This is not my first question and answer site.

And you are following a script whether you know it or not.

Perhaps I think too highly of you as it is.   But I am nothing if not flexible in my opinion of others.  I simply observe them as they ply their trades.

>YAWN<
Not your first thread site.   Kudos to you.   Your experience is vastly greater than any of ours and is only eclipsed by your faith based originality.
Keep digging your hole. It  is about to reach China.

Exactly! A few examples from the Koran:

Sura 2: 
(189) And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)]. (190) And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-Al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (191) But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (192) And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers.) 

Sura 3:
(139) If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allâh may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allâh likes not the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong¬doers). (140) And that Allâh may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers (141) Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allâh tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Sâbirun (the patient)?

Sura 8:
(11) (Remember) when your Lord revealed to the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes." (12) This is because they defied and disobeyed Allâh and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, then verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment (13) This is (the torment), so taste it, and surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire. (14) O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battle-field, never turn your backs to them.

·          

·          

·          

·          

·          

·          

·          

·         Sura 9:
. (3) Except those of the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them for the end of their term. Surely Allâh loves Al- Mattaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2). (4) Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 

(28) Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 

(35)….That is the right religion, so wrong not yourselves therein, and fight against the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) collectively[], as they fight against you collectively. But know that Allâh is with those who are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2). (36)The postponing (of a Sacred Month) is indeed an addition to disbelief: thereby the disbelievers are led astray, for they make it lawful one year and forbid it another year in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allâh, and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their deeds is made fair-seeming pleasing to them. And Allâh guides not the people, who disbelieve. (37) O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allâh (i.e. Jihâd) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared to the Hereafter.[] (38) If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people, and you cannot harm Him at all, and Allâh is Able to do all things 

(42) May Allâh forgive you (O Muhammad SAW). Why did you grant them leave (for remaining behind, you should have persisted as regards your order to them to proceed on Jihâd), until those who told the truth were seen by you in a clear light, and you had known the liars?

Now be fair and do the Bible.
Here I'll help
Deut 20:16-18

Sorry, didn't realize that Deuteronomy and Leviticus were part of the Christian Covenant. My understanding is that was for the Jews when they were under the Mosaic Law which was harsh, yes?

A little context in relation to Matthew and Luke?

As far as war, Christians going to war would contradict everything that Jesus told Christians to do since the institution of the New Covenant. There have been quite a few wars in which “Christians” thought that God and Jesus wanted them to kill, often resulting in mutual slaughter of those of the same religion and others just because they are of a different political opinion, nationality, race or other issue. Christians are supposed to be different as they have faith in the resurrection and consider themselves temporary residents whereas without that hope they would likely not be different.(1Cor 15:12-34; Heb 11:13-16) If those “Christians” that have participated in those blood baths would have tested those supposed expressions of God being preached by their Clergy in support of war and saying that God is on their side as their preachers were preaching them into the trenches in comparison with the teachings of Jesus, many atrocities such as the Crusades, Civil Wars, the Holocaust, and several other atrocities and wars perpetrated by those claiming to follow Christ would not have happened. Same thing if they would have had their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong as obviously many of those things were wrong. 

(2 Timothy 2:24-26) But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him for the will of that one.
(1 John 4:1) Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
(Hebrews 5:13-14) For everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong. 
(Matthew 7:21-23) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

Christians in Bible times did not go to war. 
(2 Corinthians 10:3-4) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things.
(1 John 3:11-12) For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another; 12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous.
(Romans 12:17-21) Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves,beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good. 
(John 13:35) By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.” 


What did Jesus mean by “I came to put, not peace, but a sword”? 
Jesus told his disciples: “Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household.” Accepting his message would cause division in some families. (Matthew 10:34-38) This does not mean that the Bible message of itself causes family division. Rather, unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity. Instead of embracing the good news, most people reject it. Some make themselves enemies of those who proclaim it, even if they are close family members. This is to be expected. Jesus said to his disciples:“A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:20)

Jesus used an occasion with a sword to teach a lesson. 
(Luke 22:36-38) Then he said to them: “But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one. 37 For I tell YOU that this which is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘And he was reckoned with lawless ones.’ For that which concerns me is having an accomplishment.” 38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”
(Luke 22:49-51) When those about him saw what was going to happen, they said: “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” 50 A certain one of them even did strike the slave of the high priest and took off his right ear. 51 But in reply Jesus said: “LET it go as far as this.” And he touched the ear and healed him.
(Matthew 26:51-52) But, look! one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Jesus taught that when Christians were persecuted they were to flee rather than retaliate. When the Roman authorities took Jesus he did not want his followers to battle them and when the Roman legions under Cestus Gallus were to come against Jerusalem in 66 C.E. the Christians were to flee rather than participate in the war. Christians consider themselves temporary residents and will not kill others for a political cause. Christians know that God can resurrect the dead and that those that do not know any better will also be resurrected.(Rom 4:17; Acts 24:15-16)
(John 18:36) Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”
(Matthew 10:23) When they persecute YOU in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to YOU, YOU will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.
(Matthew 24:15-16) “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains. 
(Luke 21:20-21) “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju•de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her;
(Hebrews 11:13-16) In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them.
(Acts 24:15-16) and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. 16 In this respect, indeed, I am exercising myself continually to have a consciousness of committing no offense against God and men.





Christians were given warnings about what to expect in the last days and they place their hope in God and the resurrection rather than man. (2Tim 3:1-5; Ps 118:9;146:3; Jer 17:5)
(Matthew 24:9) “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.
(Revelation 2:10-11) Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: He that conquers will by no means be harmed by the second death.’
(Revelation 6:9-11) And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.
(Revelation 13:9-10) If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone [is meant] for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.



It really seems odd when people of the same religion kill members of their own religion. 
JESUS told his disciples: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” (John 13:34) I don’t think that Christians can manifest such love for one another and at the same time go to war and kill one another. I don’t think that there could be a greater division than members of the same religion killing one another and Christ is not supposed to be divided.(1Cor 1:13)
(1 John 3:10-12) The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another; 12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous.
(1 John 4:20-21) If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.
(1Cor 10:20) No; but I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want YOU to become sharers with the demons
(John 16:2-3) Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.


A few quotes about the attitudes of early Christians in relation to war: 
“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.

“We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage,—and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified.”—Justin Martyr in “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (2nd century C.E.), The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, Mich.; reprint of 1885 Edinburgh edition), edited by A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, Vol. I, p. 254.

“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.

I liked and agreed with what you said up til the part where you started talking about lefties... it has nothing to do with lefty paranoia... I know there are those who want to blame everything on lefties.. but seriously bringing them into something like this seems to weaken things.. I think, and I don't necessarily agree with them.,,, that people who talk about peace within Islam etc... are JUST kind people... trying to do the right thing, trying to be objective and reasonable.... that doesn't make them lefties I am afraid... 

I will not go down this rabbit hole. It's bad enough I have to correct such an oxymoron as "Islam is peaceful", I will not attempt to make the same effort for leftisim. 

Those people are not kind, they're stupid. I do not care about intentions, I care about facts, and the facts say that most of them do defend Islam despite its constant violent occurances, and they still classify any criticism towards Islam as "Islamophobia". And before you say so, yes not all, but certainly most.

Avoiding all rabbit holes like the plague.. but it seems to me that the criticisms of Islamaphobia are very much akin to the lefty cries... all blanket generalisms designed to shut down the discussion... and it generally works too.. which is why people do it.

Facts are another phenomenon.. when most people use that term they are talking about opinion rather than fact.... so if we were talking fact then you really can't know whether someone who says Islam is about peace and tolerance... is a lefty,.. I am not a fan of Islam as I've said.. but if we are talking facts here. MOST Muslims are NOT violent or terrorists.. Best to be very cautious when we bandy the facts thing about I find..

But hey ho... 

you went through the rabbit hole, I'm not following.

have fun in there, I hear it makes for an exellent echo chamber!

Yea yea whatever... seems to me some people have no idea what a rabbit hole is and isn't and prefer to deal with generalised blanket statements rather than earnest debate, but given the MO here, this shouldn't surprise me

Some top examples of "picking all the nonsense from the previous Abrahamic religions and still add its own bull$*it to it." would have given some credibility to that claim.

"see how many intrepretations you can give to this:

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers." 2:191"

I don't think Muslims have much problem with that verse. They know it refers to  specific incident in early Islamic history. To give it a bit of a context I've started with the previous verse and presented the passage in a more narrative format.  Let me know if you have any problems with the passage.

2- Do not commit aggression-for, verily, God does not love aggressors
1- [However, you may have to] Fight in God's cause [of promoting justice and peace] those who wage war against you
7- if they [enemy fighters] attack you [to kill you], then [your soldiers are allowed to] kill them.
3- [you may as an army] kill them wherever you find them [just as they kill you wherever they find you]
6- but fight them not at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there.
4- [also, you may] turn them out [only] from [land] they turned you out from.
5- Al-Fitnah [causing wars and conflicts] is worse than killing [traitors who cause wars and conflicts].
8- Such [as defined above] is the measured and appropriate recompense of disbelievers [who commit aggression]."

The religion would not exist without adherents.

Is that a fact??? Just wondering.. did you count all the people stoned to death, the women beaten to death, the gay people killed, the honour killings... the years and years and years of fighting between the factions of Islam?  I am no fan of any religion... but I do think we have to be very careful about making sweeping claims about any religion ... generally speaking MUCH of the death and destruction re CHristianity WAS in the past... generally speaking it's evolved to be much less violent and destructive... just saying,,, devil's advocate an all that

The majority of Christians may no longer be killing and maiming people ... but they are responsible for the continued persecution and oppression of billions of people.  They now use legislation.

Just one example is Christians oppression of women.
Hell, people are so brainwashed by churches that women think it's okay for them to be subordinate to men.
And people wonder why it's so difficult to get women equal pay?

And think about it ... it's really not that big of a mental leap from treating women as 2nd class citizens, to regulating what they wear or killing them for disobeying.

This post was edited by Walt O'Reagun at April 21, 2017 12:22 PM MDT