Do you think there's any truth to the theory of "Hypergamous instincts" and have you had any experiences that would back up this theory?

I forgot to say... I am as sure as I can be that it's not instinct.. in the nature vs nurture debate it has been shown that cultures vary... and historically there are variations.. so it cannot be nature.. it's more to do with societal values and mores. 

Thanks for your opinion.
I wonder if the amount of women who cheat compared to the amount of men who cheat directly correlates to the amount of women who are stay at home moms compared to the amount of men who are stay at home dads?
You see what I mean?
Usually the spouse who is away from home "Working" is the one who ends up cheating and the one who spends most of their time with the kids like I do doesn't have the time, energy, money or really even the opportunity to cheat.

I think if more men stayed home and more women were the bread winners you'd see a spike in women cheating.
Just my experience, because if my wife had to raise our child and work part-time alone in the evenings like I did for years she wouldn't have had the time, energy, money or guy friends etc.necessary to have affairs like she did.

The other thing we are forgetting is who are these cheating men cheating with?
Women.
Women who are sleeping with married men.
They're not anymore innocent in this than the guys my ex wife cheated with.
I just think the notion that women are not as likely to cheat as men is completely wrong.
They just historically haven't always had the opportunity men have.
It takes 2 to tango and women ARE as likely to cheat as men from what I've experienced in my life.
Thanks. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 11, 2017 11:58 AM MDT

Hi Truthseeker

You have been bitten, and bitten bad. But that is net e real reason to adopt a philosophy that says that all women are greedy opportinists and should be mistrusted at every turn. women are not 'all greed' any more than Christian congregations are 'all love' even though many like to think so ;-))
People are individuals, everywhere, even in far off places like India or China, we get shaped by how we are raised and by who we meet on our way through life (and that applies just as much to women, as it does to men)

Thank you for your opinion.
I am not planning on adopting this philosophy, but I did want some feedback from you guys in case there is something about hypergamous instincts that is correct.
I know that I've heard forever that studies have shown that women choose mates that seem to be healthy, strong and with good genes in the hopes of producing the healthiest offspring possible.
Like it's just an instinct they have that ensures the human race continues.
I wonder how true that is and what role if any that instinct plays in infidelity or the breakdown if marriages?
Just an honest question, I'm not trying to push this philosophy of hypergamous instincts on anyone it was just suggested to me in the responses of my last question regarding "How would women feel about dating a single dad that makes less money?"
I just like to learn and explore both sides of any argument and hopefully find the truth.
Thanks. : ) This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 11, 2017 4:45 PM MDT

How strong is that instinct to reproduce so that the human race continues?  In the entire western world and a good portion of the Far East people are reproducing below replacement rate.  If this continues unabated, entire cultures will eventually die out.  

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

You'll notice that the more advanced societies are not replacing themselves.  The societies that are less advanced, primarily areas of Africa and the ME, are currently driving the population increase.  

Perhaps our primal "instincts" are more the behavior humans learned to survive in primitive times, rather than "hardwired" in us.  We in the west are far removed from those times.  People can learn and unlearn things, and perhaps in time new "instincts" are developed?  Some people choose to hang on to the old, labeling and stereotyping entire groups of people.  It's much easier than taking people as individuals.  

I agree about the reproduction rates decreasing in this part of the world.
A lot of people aren't raising families anymore like they used to.
Some choose to not have children at all and some choose to wait until after they've established a career and by then they're well into their 30's and having 3 or 4 kids and a career seems impractical.
However people are still having sex.
Using protection or birth control they are still going through the motions of breeding.
They're doing it for pleasure rather than reproduction, but does the instinct to have sex or "breed" with the strongest, healthiest, genetically gifted alpha male still come into play in who a woman chooses as a sex partner?
Even if she has no intention of having children will she cheat on her husband if a better breeding partner comes along at work or wherever and shows interest in her?
I don't know?
You are a woman correct?
I was hoping that you could tell me.
Thanks. : )

That people are having sex for pleasure, not reproduction, and often specifically avoiding reproduction, takes the teeth out of that "primal instinct"...no?  

Ah, but was it the "strongest, healthiest, genetically gifted alpha male" that women theoretically flit from man to man for, or the man of "high social status"?  Being the former doesn't necessarily equate with the later, likewise the later doesn't automatically equate to the former.  There are plenty of healthy, buff, attractive laborers living in mobile homes and a lot of skinny, little, squirrelly-looking nerds of higher social and financial status.  

I can only speak for myself, TS.  I am attracted to a man based upon the chemistry between us.  There are many men who are better looking and better off financially than the ones I have dated or the one I married.  While I have had the option at times to "trade up", I have never done so.  Their better looks and/or bigger bank account isn't what turns me on.  It's the chemistry.
 
You state below that you crave one-on-one intimacy rather than the harem that you were told is your "base instinct"...methinks you've answered your own question, TS. :) 

I think the primal instinct to reproduce is still there, but people (and this is gonna get me in trouble) are more selfish than they ever were and more interested in travelling, having money and freedom than they are in raising kids.
To me that is why some people put off having kids.
They've been taught to get an education, start a career, sow their wild oats, travel, live your life and then have kids.
Meanwhile our bodies are wanting us to make babies in our early 20's because science tells us that's when we are most likely to produce healthy offspring.
What society wants goes against nsture in a way.
That's just my opinion anyway.

I do appreciate that you go for chemistry as the main thing you want in a partner.

Hmm...maybe the reason I crave the one on one relationships rather than the harem has either been taught to me by movies or seeing my family and their relationships or maybe it's a territorial type of instinct?

Do women get confused because maybe over time men who are not genetically gifted have figured out that they can compete by making more money and gaining status?
Are women torn between being with a hot guy who lives in "mobile home" as you put it or staying with a "nerdy" guy who has money, status and stability?
Do women have affairs so they can try to have both? This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 12, 2017 12:43 PM MDT

Selfishness certainly plays a part in the choice to have children or not, but that is hardly the entire, or even the/a primary, reason.  And the reasons have changed over time, as well.  Some wish to be "financially stable" to bring the children they do have into a life without poverty, it is not selfish to wish a life without want for one's children.  Feminism has played a huge role, but so, too, has the necessity of two parents working to provide what a single paycheck used to cover.  Then there is the idea we are virtually inundated with from every direction today that we are overpopulating, running out of resources, destroying the earth, etc. that has had a great impact upon people's choices regarding how many, if any, children to have.  This is really pushed to kids in school today.  The availability of birth control and abortion have also had a major impact.  

That you say perhaps you learned to desire one-on-one intimacy rather proves my point.

As I stated earlier, I can only speak for myself.  So, too, can any other woman.  And quite frankly, the notion that any man can speak for me is ridiculous.  I never went for a man based either basis, as I said, chemistry is my main measure in a mate.  What, precisely, determines that chemistry is beyond me.  I know the traits I find important...I want someone who is based and comfortable in their own skin.  Honesty, integrity, humor, compassion, and admittedly, twisted in the same general direction as I am are important to me, though I have had many friends with most or all of those traits, yet if the chemistry isn't there, it just ain't happening. Beyond that, I could never be with anyone I found physically repulsive...regardless of wealth, but neither is physical 'perfection' alone enough.  Probably the single most "attractive" physical trait in a guy for me is a full head of hair...yet the three guys I dated longest, one of whom I married, were all balding at a young age.  

I have no confusion, as my metric isn't money or staus.  Personally, I have neither had, nor ever tried to have, both, so I cannot answer that, nor have I ever wished to have two relationships at once.   

The topic of nature vs nurture that you've raised is interesting because I have read that other cultures particularly in the Philippines women are supposedly raised to be more loyal to the concept of marriage, family and being good wives.
I don't know if it's true, but maybe it is less instinct and more the way our society has just kinda given up on making marriages last through good times and bad, richer or poorer, sickness and health etc.
Maybe all this infidelity is just a result of the times and our upbringing??
You think? This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 11, 2017 12:06 PM MDT

Thanks, I do kinda agree with the idea that a parent's love for their child is truly unconditional, but the love two spouses have for one another seems to need a lot of work to keep it going, LoL.
I hope to find a woman that I can love and our relationship doesn't feel like work or an uphill struggle to keep it together.

Thanks for your take on this topic. : )

You're welcome and may God bless you in your search :)

Thanks. : )

Hmm...thanks for your thoughts.

If I'm correct you're saying that people can choose whether or not to act on their instincts and that if you get married you would expect your wife to honor your marriage and not act on her instincts when tempted, but if she did it isn't really a deal breaker for you?

What things could she do that would not be considered a deal breaker to you if you don't mind me asking?

LoL!
Thank you for making an appearance I do appreciate it.
I like how YOU think.
I guess I just have to do things the hard way, I've been told that before.
I need to hear your side and the "Shite" as well.
I'm a person who loves women and gets hurt really bad so I'm just trying to see if there's something I'm doing wrong?
I'm kinda taking notes and trying understand women in a way that allows me to be more realistic?
I know I can get a really hot woman if I try hard enough because I've done it, but that relationship damn near killed me so I have to figure out what I want and......
Hmm...maybe that's my whole problem right there?
I'm chasing women that are out of my league and then wondering why she uses me and f_cks me over?
I need to start dating real women that I'm compatible with.
I feel like I just had a breakthrough.
Thanks. : )

LOL!  You just reminded me of this song.  Here is the solution for you.  No therapy needed.  If you don't know the song, listen to the words carefully. ;-)

OMG!!!
That is the funniest thing ever, LoL!
Sigh...I'm not really superficial.
Like she doesn't have to be turning heads like my ex, but if she's even just kinda cute I could love the hell out of her. : )
Maybe that is shallow to a lesser degree?
If she's beautiful on the inside that's a great quality even if she isn't physically attractive.
Sometimes I'm attracted to women who don't even think they're attractive though.
Like I don't mind if she has some extra weight, it's womanly to me.
I'm not as young and cute as I was once either.
I guess there's truth to that song though it wouldn't feel great to know that someone is only with you only because they can't do any better.
I just need a normal woman who believes in love and wants to live in that fantasy with me because maybe it is just a fantasy, I don't know?
It feels real in the moment.
Feelings are real too right?
Anyway, thank you for that hilarious and probably truthful song. : ) This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 11, 2017 6:27 PM MDT

You had me for the first 3 paragraphs.