Do you think there's any truth to the theory of "Hypergamous instincts" and have you had any experiences that would back up this theory?

Thank you TZ!  I really needed a good laugh tonight.  You never fail to come up with the most off the wall things.  My favorite line here is:

"She stays with her man because it's preferable to dying alone surrounded by cats." LMFAO!   I think you should go on the road with your act.

Thanks for your opinion.
I think humans do have a certain animalistic nature.
I don't know how much it affects our behaviour though.
Like you said about men wanting a harem of women.
When I partner up I don't want anymore women or men involved.
I love the idea of intimacy and having a close bond within a relationship, but maybe that's why I get hurt.
I don't want to share, LoL!
How much does marriage affect people?
Does marriage conflict with our natural instincts or have I just not found the right woman yet?
I've been with the same woman forever.
I don't have a lot of relationship experience with various partners.
I feel like I need to get out there and experience other women and then revisit this topic.
Thank you for letting me know about hypergamous instincts.
It is an interesting concept.
Now I just want to see what the truth is?
Thanks. : )

This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 11, 2017 5:22 PM MDT

TS, most women want the intimacy and close bond you're describing you desire.  It's unfortunate that your ex had her issues and has completely devastated you with them.  That really is not the norm.  Trust me on that please. I would say it would be a good idea for you to go on some dates just to get yourself out there but, you need to ensure you don't jump into a relationship too soon.  You also need to make sure you don't talk about your ex and all the issues on a first date. First dates are supposed to be fun, not a complaining session.  It also will show the women that you're still not over your ex.  If you feel you can't do that, I really do urge you to seek counseling if you haven't done so already.  There is a lot of insight a qualified therapist will be able to give to you on your situation to help you move forward.  He/she will give you the tools to help you find the healthy stable relationship you are looking for.   

Thanks.
I appreciate you saying that what my ex did isn't the norm.
I am worried that I will get completely attached to the first woman who comes along who doesn't manipulate and "abuse" me for lack of a better word like my ex did.
I need to get some self confidence back.
I guess I need space from my ex and other relationships for a while and I could use counselling, but I can't really afford it and my life is hectic right now because I'm still dealing with losing my brother this year and my wife's infidelity and my sister in law having cancer and the effect all of this is having on my niece.
Having a relationship is more of a fantasy for me at this point.
Anyway, I learn a little something from every interaction that I have on here and it's wonderful when someone like yourself actually seems to care and want to help me.
Thank you. : )

That's a nice thing to say TS.  You're welcome.  You surely have had a lot of challenges over the past year.  My condolences on the loss of your brother.  Maybe the first step for now, is to stop focusing on your ex, and start focusing on yourself and figure out what are the things that make you happy, along with helping your niece and sister-in-law when you are able to?

I agree with that.
I think cheaters will likely cheat again unless they make a conscious effort to change and I think if you surround yourself with enough temptation then there are gonna be days when you are mad at your spouse or the marriage is going through a low patch and yes I think anyone can make a mistake in those times.
I didn't want to be working around a lot of women and I didn't go to bars either while I was married.
I didn't want to hurt her and I didn't want to be In a position to be tempted by another woman.
I think you have a good agreement in your marriage that should help avoid infidelity.
It's not practical for everyone, but it works.
Thanks for sharing that. : ) This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at September 11, 2017 6:46 PM MDT

Wow!
You really dug into some important things there.
I really appreciate your answer and it's very important that women like yourself are answering so honestly.
I've heard that women prefer different mates at different times in their ovulation cycle.
My ex used go be all over me before and after her pe_iod.

Without being on birth control she would want intercou_se often and want to go on the pill and be unprotected.
Once on the pill she would have drastic mood swings and not want s_x at all and have huge fights with me that made no sense and she'd leave me and then come back crying and saying she talked to her friend and she doesn't know why she left?
I would notice her bottom lip trembling at times when she would start the pill.
After all of these things whenever she would suggest going back on the pill I would fight it and remind her of what an unhealthy effect it seemed to have on her. 

I am going to keep some of your answer for my notes because I don't think the truth reflects poorly on women, but I do think it's important for everyone to understand women.
Women are very complicated, but that is part of why they are so amazing.
Women can't do incredible things like become pregnant and have children without having pretty complex horomones and instincts etc.
They aren't always going to think the same way as men.
Us men need to realise that and prepare ourselves for a whole variety of female behaviours and emotions over the course if a relationship.
I don't want to be misogynistic, but I want to be more realistic.
I just have to expect different things and love women differently than I have been.
Women are perfect, but not in the way movies and tv portray them.

Women evolved the instinct to get pregnant by an alpha and cuckold a beta. There is nothing "amazing" about this. It's f***ing disgusting.

Women desire alphas for their strength but resent that they can't control them.

Women desire betas because they can be wound around her little finger and easily manipulated into doing just about anything. Though women have secret / subconscious contempt for these men.

When a man puts up with unreasonable behavior women don't read that as love. They read it as a man who has no other options but the company of a b*tch. It makes her find him unattractive because she knows that an attractive man would have options. An attractive man would just leave and get with someone more agreeable. Subconsciously she sees him as a desperate p*ssy beggar and it breeds contempt.

I'm very alpha in some ways but I have some beta tendencies that I suppress. I'm very loving and I have a tendency to spoil women if I'm not careful. Women are very like children psychologically. If you spoil them, they turn into monsters. You have to control them. They want to be controlled deep down. They feel secure when you take control. Be alpha, put them in their place, or stay single. Being beta is just the road to misery (for both of you). This post was edited by Zeitgeist at September 13, 2017 2:41 PM MDT

Ultimately men have a choice of whether we want to be in a relationship or not, but I am alpha and beta as well.
I think it just pays to understand maybe how women feel during different times in their cycles etc.

I think if you choose to be in a relationship with a woman you should be ready to adapt or stay single as you put it.
A man has a choice whether he wants to be a "Cuckold" or not.
Men have to learn to recognize if they're in that situation and they have to get out unless it's what they want??

Hmm...relationships are complicated and I find that the woman I was with tended to live in the moment as opposed looking ahead long term like I did.
My point is I didn't sweat the everyday arguments etc.
I knew that I loved her and I had a plan for us, but she did sweat those arguments and she didn't see the big picture of our lives together.
If she wasn't happy today then today is all there is and she could leave or cheat or whatever.
I m not saying all women are like her, but I think it would benefit us men to try to focus more on the little everyday moments within our relationships and try to make sure our partner is happy today, not just overall or in the long run, but right now, is she happy?
What my ex did was disgusting especially since we had a  small child at home, but I don't think it's fair to generalize all women as disgusting.
I think we men just don't understand them and that is why I am really trying because I want to find true happiness and I don't think that I have any business being in a relationship with a woman until I learn more about them.

When I look at some of my favorite romantic movies and love stories that I grew up watching and fantasizing about, you know (Chick flicks)?
I found out that a lot of those movies are written, and directed by men.
It's a male fantasy believe it or not,?
Women watch those movies and love them, but I don't think they accurately represent women.
Women are beautiful, intelligent, incredible people, but us men have got to stop projecting our fantasies and start actually paying attention to women.
I got hurt because just about everything I knew about relationships, love, women, marriage and loyalty was wrong.
I'm trying to start over and learn the truth, but I'm 37 and I'm just at the tip of the iceberg of figuring women out.

I think women are also confused by the movies and magazines and everything around them that tells them who they are.
We all live in a big fantasy so let's get to the truth.
So far I thought Just Asking's answer was a very balanced, unbiased and informed take on women.
I hope to hear from more women who don't mind opening up about this topic.
It's not just about men vs. women or misogyny vs. feminism it's about hearing all sides and experiences and trying to find out what's real?
Thank you for your opinions.

I love picking apart things, especially human behavior. We should be clear that these studies aren't definitive. For every study that comes out with these implications, there are others that disagree. I don't know anything about the sample sizes, how diverse the groups were, or any of that. For all we know, the studies I reference could be junk science. We don't know. At the same time, I think it's a good starting point because they cause us to question things and to think about where behaviors come from and why we do the things we do. The more we talk and ponder, the closer to the truth we get.

Some of what I said was generalizations, and I made that clear. When women rank what they want in men, core concepts emerge, but each woman weights and ranks them differently. I've never seen a study that differentiated Alpha females versus Beta females and there is a HUGE difference in behaviors there as well. A Beta female is likely going to be docile, agreeable, and even passive most of the time. I suspect a Beta female is likely going to be the happiest with an Alpha male taking the lead, and she probably would be less likely to stray as well. What percentage of the population is Alpha/ Beta? I don't even think we know. At the same time, so many of these studies involve college students. I'm pretty sure Alpha males and females are the most likely to be attending college and interested in  psychology studies. Ergo, we probably aren't getting anything that represents the true population or genders as a whole. You have to take studies with a grain of salt. 

"Women evolved the instinct to get pregnant by an alpha and cuckold a beta. There is nothing "amazing" about this. It's f***ing disgusting." LOL Oh my goodness. No. See the above. Also, I pulled from studies that applied to the discussion. Another areas that fascinates me is in-group/ out-group behavior.  Studies on certain primates show that the females are likely to pick a male within their group to raise a family with and will venture to a neighboring tribe/ group during ovulation. The theory is that it helps ensure genetic diversity. It the same group of primates procreates internally all the time, they'd all be inbred. Going out for procreation is necessary for the survival of the species. Moreover, the female primates did so in secret. They were careful not to be detected because being discovered would essentially result in exile. She and her offspring would likely die without the protection of her mate and community. But, this says nothing about Alphas or Betas. For ethical reasons, scientists couldn't duplicate the same study in humans, but they planted "in-group" messages when they were having women rate the attractiveness of men. They'd tell them the guy went to the same college or lived in the same town. It actually boosted his attractiveness rating to be part of the same group as the woman, but there was a catch- not while the women were ovulating. Then, they preferred the out-group males. i.e. The women in the study displayed the same behavior as the primates. If these studies relate, that's not cuckolding. The male primates are not ok with their females stepping out. If we really are displaying primate-like behavior, it's purely about creating genetic diversity. 

By the same token, males are primed to spread their seed as much as they can and to as many females as they can. I wouldn't necessarily call that disgusting. It just is. And, that doesn't mean that men today go out and sleep with every woman in sight. That, I would find disgusting. Most don't.  Like women, men have largely adapted to the society we live in today, where that kind of thing is a no-go. But, we don't see the same Western behaviors everywhere. There's a village somewhere... I want to say Thailand, but don't quote me on that. Anyway, the women remain with their families and it's a matriarchal society. Women choose their partners, but never live with them. The men visit at night, and then they're done. That's it. Yet, the men play the father role with their nieces and nephews. Their function in society is essential- they're not just nighttime toys for the women, but the village has been like that seemingly forever and it's different from what we usually accept to be responding to normal biological urges. Why? What makes that village different? Clearly, we're missing a piece in why people mate the way they do. On the flip side, we've got the harems of the middle east. I don't think I need to explain the philosophy to you. 

My point is, you can't run with a single study and take it at face value. Nobody is happy with any partner all of the time. Some women are happier with Alpha males most of the time, while others are happier with betas, and yes, there are fluctuations in how women accept behaviors throughout a month. Some men prefer the challenge, sensuality, and directness of an Alpha female. Others feel like they're locked in a battle for control with them or are intimidated by them. It's not a steadfast rule. I think the key is to find someone who balances you. If you're an Alpha and you don't like having a dominant partner, you'll go for a Beta. Most of us have traits of both, so finding someone who compliments us is essential if we're trying to fit into modern Western relationship roles.

"Women are very like children psychologically. If you spoil them, they turn into monsters..." No, people do this. In general. If you cater to anyone too much, they expect that and more. 

"You have to control them. They want to be controlled deep down." Nope. lol Just no. I think it's safe to say most women like confidence. If the man I'm with looks over a drink menu and suggests I order something because he knows my preferences and knows what drinks are a good match, that's generally ok with me. In fact, I'd consider it looking after me. It's usually sweet and it shows confidence. It could be done by an Alpha or Beta. If the same guy grabs the menu and orders a drink for me without talking to me, that's controlling. It's not going to fly. Me being the character I am, I'd probably correct the order and ask for something totally different, even if the first drink was fine. I don't accept control. That kind of relationship would last.. eh... as long as it took me to get out of the restaurant. I think it's safe to say I'm an Alpha female. Maybe you need Beta females to make your shtick work. Neither is wrong. It's about creating balance. 

I never apologize for making generalizations. Any discussion of human nature is obviously a generalization. So long as a generalization has strong statistical validity, there is nothing wrong with it. It is also impossible in a short internet post to describe things in their full detail. Some of the finer points get lost. 

Humans have free will, so we are not slaves to our nature. Just because I assert that a group definitely ARE a certain way doesn't mean I'm asserting they definitely ACT a certain way. We not animals. Our nature and our actions are separate things. It's my belief that human nature shows little variation. I believe most of the diversity of our actions comes mostly from the soul's choices not the body's programming.

I completely agree that human nature just is. All these behaviours have evolved because they benefit the species. Though I have always found human nature gross. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good. 

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/131/Naturalistic-Fallacy

All morality is based on the suppression of certain aspects of human nature. The fact that such behaviour has evolved for a reason is irrelevant. Some societies decide that human nature is good. They collapse because human nature is wicked and any society that embraces it is sure to tear itself apart. Some societies recognise that human nature is problematic but believe they can change it and redesign society. They believe everything is a social construct not innate. They collapse because this is delusional. Communism is a perfect example. The solution is to accept our nature as reality but do our best to suppress the darker aspects and be good people.

I don’t really believe that alpha / beta division is really part of human nature. I believe human nature is pretty constant and the significant variables are environment and free will. Alphas behave like alphas simply because they have a competitive advantage over the betas. If they lose those advantages, such as an alpha female model who is aging and losing her looks, or an alpha male businessman who has fallen on hard times, their behaviour begins to change. Likewise, if you endowed a beta with alpha advantages, you’d start to see alpha behaviour. They don’t have a different nature. They’re just playing the hand they were dealt. Most people are kept moral by knowing that people wouldn’t tolerate their sh*t. Though if they had power do whatever they wanted without consequence, they would be very tempted to. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The fact that different personalities and different cultures exist is not relevant to discussion of human nature. Human nature is foundational. Culture / personality is superficial.

When I say that women must be controlled, I’m not talking about superficial things like what drinks are ordered. I’m not controlling. I have no interest in micromanaging for the sake of it. Though I do believe in patriarchy. Women should defer to men. Women are incapable of leadership. I’m not taking about individuals. The occasional anomaly like Margaret Thatcher is irrelevant. I’m taking about women as a class. If women are in charge, society goes to sh*t.

Matriarchal societies are complete failures. They're always poor and geographically remote. The only reason they still exist is because they are not worth conquering. All the evidence from history shows that any society that abandons patriarchy achieves very little and is usually overrun by a more dominant civilization. Patriarchy is one of the key foundations of civilization. The west’s experiment with egalitarianism (which is really just a subtle matriarchy) will end very badly for us.

Women are more susceptible to becoming spoiled than men. Human infants remain helpless for a very long time and require a lot of nurture. We have therefore evolved gender roles that facilitate nurture. Women evolved to nurture and men evolved to provide and defend. Women and children receive and men give. All romance is based on men giving and sacrificing for women. It’s part of female nature to feel entitled to this.

This post was edited by Zeitgeist at September 15, 2017 4:40 PM MDT

Umm... Ok. I think we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on most of that, but thank you for elaborating. :)