So are you saying this is a human king or a non human king/prince my2cents?

https://biblehub.com/kjv/ezekiel/28.htm

It is both. A prophecy against the literal human king of Tyre and of Satan who is full of pride, evil, and idolitry that was throughout the city of Tyre and in both this king and Satan. I believe that the king was possessed by Satan at the time. This post was edited by my2cents at December 3, 2017 5:26 PM MST

Then you will miss the point of the story.   The facts don't matter, the point is the message contained in this story.  The City of Tyre is filled with lust, envy, greed and all things wanton.  The Kingdom of God is the opposite.  I mean that is very brief and may be confusing, but my point is that it really doesn't matter Where the Earthly King was.  The message is the tale whether true or no.  Truth is truth.

Yup.
[In some respects, Satan’s course parallels that of the ancient king of Tyre. (Ezekiel 28:12-19) Both started out faultless in their ways but became victims of their own haughtiness.]

I don't think the bible was written in that manner though, I think they wanted the Lament of King Tyre to mean something even if it was politically based,  however to me it get lost in translation when he is compared to a cherub that God anointed.  Before this it says that he had wanted to be a God

This post was edited by kjames at December 3, 2017 5:30 PM MST

In keeping with the thrust of your question, it might be important to note the numbers of Christians who have never actually read the Bible, or the entire Bible, and further, how many who have done so not fully grasping what they’ve read. 

The very format and language of Biblical scripture leaves space (and apparently, need) for endless interpretation, which of course is why 40+ thousand different sects of Christians ply their varying beliefs based on the same source material. Since so much of the material is metaphorical, or eventually became viewed as such, how can primary messages NOT be missed, misconstrued, or misunderstood? 

We are amiss not to also bring to light the dozens of translations from which the current versions of the Bible are derived. Lost in translation, indeed.

This post was edited by Don Barzini at December 3, 2017 7:03 PM MST

I agree many just listen to the verses interpreted by their vicar or priest.  I'm not sure if the Bible was meant to be literal, it is often referred to as allegorical, or a holder of the mysteries.  Jesus speaks in parables in stories, which suggests again the message isn't meant as literal. 

Many of the numbers are seen in the Zodiac clock, I've also looked at it from this viewpoint as the NT has some heavy relation to the sun in the zodiac.  The OT has a number of association also to the celestial realm and many star constellations are also mentioned in stories such as the Great bear and the little bear. This would coincide to "On earth as it is in heaven" or the mason above so below, which I think is also in relation to the conscious and the subconscious.    Wiseman were always astronomers, and in the NT they  were looking for the star which would tell them where jesus was born. This appears to fall in line with the star Sirius (from Osirius) and the three magi



Orion is mentioned in the bible a number of times 
 
Amos 5:8 [Seek him] that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD [is] his name:
Job 38:31 - Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
 Job 9:9 - Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Hades is also in the celestial realm along a similar line.

Job 38- Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Pleiades was know as the seven sisters in Greek myth and is often seen as grapes in greek paintings. 

 Rev 12 - And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:  This is virgo, in fact virgo is a prominent figure because she gives birth to the sun, the sun sent to judge the world in libra (the scales).

Interesting because the oldest Jewish symbol was the Mazzoreth


Yet there symbol was always the menorah (not the star of david) which has either 7 or 9 lights which appear to represent the planets, the shamash is the servant light, Shamash was also a god and represented the sun, and funnily enough the son of God is a servant to his father, which I wonder if this is Saturn god of time, law, and death.

In buddism the planets are associated with the chakras. However Christ isn't associated with the solar plexus but the heart.

There are repetitive numbers too, three seems to relate to a lot of bad luck, and forty, seventy-two, one hundred and forty four, and three hundred and sixty are also mentioned which again would relate to the zodiac clock or the circular celestial sphere.  Interesting God is meant to have 72 names, and in the lesser keys of Solomon there are 72 demons. 


The zodiac clock or solar wheel is also seen in the catholic church



St Peters also has the goddess truth cradling the sun


Mount Horeb may be related to Horus the sun god, as Mount Sinai is related to Sin the moon god, and there was many a story where the moon wanted to be higher than god and so for punishment it was made the lesser of the two lights, this is seen in tales about Lilith who is related to the moon and subconscious, Inanna, and Nyte.

Also Taurus is the beginning of the suns journey, you'll also see orions belt next to it,  which may be why there is a sacrificial bull, when the age of Aries comes along it is a ram or a sheep, in pisces jesus is the fisher of men, and in Aquarius he will be met with a man collecting water, which is odd because this was always a womens job and hence again allergorical, hidden.






In the celestial realm it is the dragon who is at the centre of the zodiac (draco), next to polaris (the axis or bellybutton of the earth)



The Eygptian book of the Dead, has similarities to Revelations.

The Passover happens at March 23rd the spring equinox when night and day are equal and then the light wins over the darkness, the start of the year was always spring, it's now January because we changed our calendar.  It was believed the celestial realm came closest to the earths equator at this time as they CROSS, and this happens again on September 23rd the autumn equinox when again the celestial veil is meant to be at it's thinnest hence Halloween celebrates the coming back of the dead.  Some ancients saw the sun as a veil because the daylight it brought veiled the mysteries of the stars and the night sky. 



With freemasonry there appears to be an obsession with duality, (chequed board) I wonder if this is to do with the knowledge of Good and Evil.  They certainly believe in this as Hiram abiff is mentioned in the bible (the widows son), and so is tubal Cain who was meant to be a builder, as was Cain. Some believe that in worshipping the God of the bible you are only seeking to join with God, but those worshipping the serpent or lucifer are looking to become a god, this may have come about from the experience of Nirvana, which may have been practiced by the Essense sect. 
Anyway I'm sure I've bored you enough, I don't know of many atheists that are that interested in the bible many have read it and dismissed it. This post was edited by kjames at December 6, 2017 4:45 PM MST

Once we recognize that the bible is an Astrotheological literary hybrid of pagan sun worship, it becomes quite clear how it’s scriptures are evolved versions of many earlier stories and folklore about the sun and stars. 
You have quite cleverly identified some of the more obvious relationships; the Egyptian Book of the Dead (the Ten Commandments are plagiarized from Verse 125 this book); the Noahide flood descends from the Sumerian “Epic of Gilgamesh”; and the numerous connections to astrology which, ironically enough, astrology is considered evil in both Christian and Muslim dogma. 

Its clear to me as one who has read not only the Bible, but the Qu’ran, the Vedas and other historical works of ancient theology, that all these works are intended to be allegorical, especially when one considers how little basis in fact they are asserted upon. All can also be traced in one thread or another directly back to the ancient Egyptian (Pagan) religion. 

What I find disturbing is how many believers are committed to their Holy books as a word for word factual account of history and the precise words from the lips of their deity(s), despite the all-too-common lack of personal grasp of what the texts actually say. This post was edited by Don Barzini at December 6, 2017 4:34 PM MST

Don you are SO close but no cigar.
It is amazing how accomplished both you and K James are.  It is mind-boggling.  But.  That said?

SO what?

All we see is how people think and react.  Through the ages.  What has this to do with the price of corn where GOD is concerned?

Go inside.  Look there.  All the answers are there.  You can put down the reading glasses for that one.

Energy is real.  You have to know that.  If you have studied the Vedas (and I KNOW you have) you must know that was not taken from anywhere else. 

Christianity is a babe in the woods compared to those teachings.  But true Christians (and there are only a handful compared to the self-serving masses who say the two Hail Mary's at the confessional) know the same teachings.  And yes, they are parables.   I don't think a lot of what was passed on through the ages came from this plane.  That is why it is  so nonsensical to so many. 

If you have studied the ancient religions upon which everything else is copied, the message that matters is what is the SAME throughout history.  Not the differences.

Everyone gets tangled up on My God is better than your God and why.  Then we have to take years to get to the point where we see that it is all the same underneath it all.

God talks to us.  I talk to Him all the time.  I get answers. The stuff I know would sound silly if I tried to explain it to you.  You weren't there and you don't know me.  Same with the Bible and the rest of it.  I wasn't there.  How does God expect me to know what is true?  Simple.  Truth is truth no matter what language it is in and how often it is plagiarized.    GO within.  It's all there. We already have all the answers. 


I'm being simple because it is. 

Sit down and meditate and see what comes through.  It is never something you can convince anyone else of. 


I am comforted that so many have walked the same path, be it in church or in some cave eons ago.  No one is necessarily wrong until they try to tell someone else that they are RIGHT.   



This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at December 4, 2017 5:41 PM MST

I agree with much of what you say, and I think we are basically on the same page. The message(s) is/are, in the most basic premise, the same. Derived from the same line of thought, and wisdom can be found within. But truth is subjective. We each have our truths, but we are not entitled to our own facts. People tend to follow the beliefs of their parents, accept the “truths” common to their region of the planet, and the differences are glaring. 

The point is that these seminal themes did not originate within the Bible itself, nor are they always best expressed there. Despite the Book’s (and the associated clergy’s) pompous (and factually devoid) claims to the contrary. 
I make the effort here to focus on the bible, though we could say much the same about most any theological text. 

My issue as an atheist isn’t with belief (I get that people have an innate need), it’s with the tone and content of the doctrines which, under the light of examination, betray the man-made fallacies that disqualify them from being the work of an omniscient being. 

If one part of scripture is factually wrong, societally abhorrent or sits in direct contradiction of another part, then what reasoning is there to accept the whole? 
One bit of profound wisdom is not a pass for all the parts that aren’t.

That this accretion of allegories and ominous proclamations can be shown to be so wrongheaded about where we came from, what the world is, and espouse themes that would make us either criminals or lunatics to follow to the letter, what cause remains to accept these account(s) as ”unerring” truth... 

While I don’t know where you’re at with all of this, some food for thought:
I long ago considered, given the scale of the cosmos, why a creator of the entire universe would have concern about what I wear, what I eat, who or how I love, how I discipline my kids, or what I believe. Is He really so insecure or vain as to require my praise every week? Is He really so petty as to send me to eternal torment if I don’t, given he’d know my position before I was even born? 
It does strike me that God is portrayed in every text exactly as we would like Him to be. 

IF a higher power exists, it seems to me extraordinarily unlikely IT would resemble the Biblical version. 


This post was edited by Don Barzini at December 6, 2017 4:37 PM MST

I think there's more to it than that Don, but glad you are well read extremely impressed, I saw all this because I love astronomy.  However, some atheists only look to the Zeitgest videos and look no further, the bible points out a pathway in the star system the celestial realm which was very important to the ancients as they didn't have electric lights, and I find this quite beautiful. This is reason for the religious ritual in the wafer and the challis, the wafer is the sun, and the challis is a star system from which the sun moves from. 
However, as I understand it (whether I believe it or not) most religion has an outer and inner teaching, the outer teaching was always given to the masses/the commoners/plebs, and this is the pagan planetary worship within the zodiac clock/celestial realm, however the inner teaching was always to do with one's character or spiritual condition.  

This is seen in baphomet who has the head of a goat (our animalistic desires) the star (pentagram) is a sign of godhood or spirit similar to Leonardo De Vinci's Vitruvian man, by following this religion the aim is godhood, yoking to a god, or freedom from the demiurge (king of material realm) which is of gnostic belief, and also seen in Kabbalah. 





The Egyptian djed may also be a representation of the spine, as the freemasons herald thirty-three degrees in freemasonry so are there 33 vertebrae in the spine. 


Hence, the Kundalini and the chakra belief may also be seen in Egypt.  


 If the star is inverted it points down to the earth and the worship of the Horned pagan God or goat of Mendes (Samael and Lilith) which is why the bible has a goat as a scape goat and why goats are bad compared to sheep, because goats are more wayward, earth worship also comes with a freedom of expression of lustful desires or any animalistic desires which is why witches covens take part in the initiation ceremony and the sky clad ceremony all sexual freedom (as they call it), this is also in line with theist Satanism in some respect. 


Lucifer for some is thought to represent the saviour of mankind, this is seen in the Luciferianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism

Judging by the world today, we are subject to much violence and sex in the media, compared to what we were a number of years ago, again this is because Aliester Crowley had a great influence on those in the media and entertainment industry "Do as thy wilt being seen on many t-shirts and the law of Thelma. The black flame seen on baphomets head.
Satanism appears to be the agenda hence materialistic), therefore people's viewpoint and priorities are pointed outward towards materialism, instead of inward toward themselves, this makes consumerism a lot of money and technology is becoming heavily relied upon to the point of dependence, which is exactly where a communist/Marxist socialist states wants us."





And this godhood idea or baphomet is seen throughout the media industry and was heralded in freemasonry


Madonna a Kabalist



 


The list goes on far too many to post here also seen in children films. Here's George Washington and his godhood. The baphomet also appears to be adrogynous.

 

Interestingly, on the Sargent Pepper album which listed who the Beatles admired, were also Carl Jung (who wrote the lesser known Red Book), he noted archetypes within the psyche, Lilith being one, interestingly left-hand pathers seek to meet Lilith within the psyche during dreamsleep (which is a whole other topic), Karl Marx, Aliester Crowley, Aldous Huxley who was Thomas Huxley's son (Darwins bulldog), his other son was Julian Huxley who was a eugenicist like Thomas. Aldous wrote the book A Brave New World,  H. G Wells who wrote War Of the Worlds, and many other interesting titles, and many more people including George Bernard Shaw, who was a Fabian Socialist. The Fabian society influenced the Labour party in the UK, members include Tony Blair who got us into the iraq war and the infamous "weapons of mass destruction" which didn't exist, and our current member Jeremy Corbyn



Their logo is of a wolf in sheeps clothing

And a tortoise which says Slow and steady wins the race. 

George Benard shaw was a fan of Hitler but especially stalin.

 





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQXAqP6ReqY

Interestingly, the EU, which the labour party was in favour of staying in had a poster representing the tower of babel, the EU building is also a representation of the tower of babel



The Tower of Babel is mentioned in the bible Genesis 11, God didn't agree with the coming together off these builders in building a monument between heave and earth and so spread the people and confounded their languages. Modern scholars believe the tower of babel (Etemenanki) a ziggurat dedicated to the Mesopotamian god Marduk by Nabopolassar, king of Babylonia (c. 610 BCE).they believe it had beautiful works at the top much like the gate of Istar.

Interestingly, Europe was named after Europea, the King of Tyre in Greek mythology had a daughter Europa of phonician lineage who was aducted by Zeus the white bull. She's seen here



 


In the bible the King of Tyre daughter is mentioned but not as a literal women but as the daugher of zion, daugther of babylon - Biblehub: And, O daughter of Tyre, with a gift shall the rich of the people intreat thy favour, making the bride a Tyrian princess. But apart from other objections, the daughter of Tyre should mean, according to the analogy of the similar phrases, daughter of Zion, daughter of Babylon, not an individual Tyrian woman, but the city and people of Tyre personified as a woman, not sure if there is any relation to the greek myth.

This all starts to build in with this one mind, one world order. The goal of marcist socialism is to do away with individuality for the benefit of the whole and the threat of global warning helps In this (bearing in mind all leaders fly to these things in private jets), along with "political correctness" which mutes people into speaking the truth and using common sense. 

The goal of one world government has always been the goal, egypt didn't disappear it turned into Rome, and Rome didn't disappear it's seen in the Gods of America and the UK.
We are becoming multicultural and we are losing our sovereignty and monotheism, at least in the UK and America, Israel knows that democracy stands on you being the dominant race in your culture which is why the Palestinians have a great big wall.

As to whether there is any truth in these occult teachings whether osirius, isis and horus, or God, Jesus christ and the holy spirit, remains to be experienced by the practitioner, as to it being good or bad, or if one is yoking to something, remains again to the more informed, or whether buddhist type of teachings at least in the way of practices like yoga etc are better religions in a communist agenda, I don't know. But the contents of the bible have alot to do with it, whether than is an agenda in of itself. But christ taught a person to change within and not look to the material world, buddha taught an escapism from karma and rebirth, and kabbalah teaches an escape from malcoth to join with kether, as hermetica taught escape from the demiurge to join with the pleroma






This post was edited by kjames at December 6, 2017 4:43 PM MST

Yes, there can be no argument of the influence of astrology on the Bible and in the minds of those of those earlier periods from which scripture is descended. The night sky has always been wondrous and mysterious -The Heavens-  that which sits so high above the fearful mortal existance here beneath that revered firmament. The ancients of every location were clearly in awe of the fraction of the universe they saw with their naked eye, even back to the earliest men, but every scripture I’ve encountered emphasizes they had not the slightest clue what they were really looking at. So they imagined. They extrapolated. They built their beliefs. 
Again, you have cited numerous examples of how these ideals evolved in different directions, served different agendas, though couched in the same basic thinking. 

I find a great deal of interest in the purposeful revisionism in the Bible and particularly the Tanakh,  that seek to redraw these cosmic origins, out of a need to answer what they lacked the tools or research to intelligently address - the big questions - while tenuously erecting a codified message of high authority. 

And I do agree with the idea of inner and outer teachings; the greater themes of hope, “divine“ guidance, power over one’s enemies and life after death draws the seeker into the closer circle of ritual and fellowship and taboo. 

Given the huge scope of subject matter to which these principles and ideals have been applied over the centuries, and the inconsistent manner in which the messages are spread, there is a vast field of interpretation to be made. If we trace back far enough, any of the major current belief tenets can be pinpointed to a revision or reinterpretation from another source. 

*Buddhism sits outside this discussion. I dont consider Buddism a belief, but a philosophy. 

While these subtly evolving ideals are all remarkably similar to those which initially spawned them, the fact that so many diversions  and revisions occurred on the paths to their current forms is, to me, evidence enough of their man-made (hence not omniscient) origin. 

You can do better than that.

Time and place, Sharonna. 

LOL I know  I am getting all haughty because I actually took the time to give an answer.  I have a nerve, I know.  You rock.

And fine answer it is. I like the haughtiness. You rock too.  This post was edited by Don Barzini at December 3, 2017 6:15 PM MST

It's the title of Ezekiel 28 "Prophecy Against the Prince of Tyre" and Lament of King of Tyre.

This post was edited by kjames at December 3, 2017 5:31 PM MST

The bible doesn't have titles, chapter headings, verse numbers, or even punctuation. It was all added by some interpreter. It does not have to be right or have any meaning at all.

Might as well say that the Bible wasn't written in English. I think that most people know that the original scrolls did not have Chapters and verses and was later added. Kinda funny that previously you asked kjames for chapter and verse.
I'm glad it was later divided that way as that helps when witnessing to others. Also glad it is in book form today, gotta be much easier than carrying around papyrus, parchment or whatever the original writers used to write their rolls, scrolls or whatever they originally called it on.

Psalms 40:7  In view of that, I said: “Here I have come,
In the roll of the book it being written about me.
(Hebrews 10:7) Then I said: ‘Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God.’”
(Psalm 40:7) Then I said: “Look, I have come. In the scroll it is written about me.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4039&t=KJV


EDIT:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000724?q=%22was+not+done+by+the+original+writers%22&p=par

"Subdividing the Bible into chapters and verses (KJ has 1,189 chapters and 31,102 verses) was not done by the original writers, but it was a very useful device added centuries later. The Masoretes divided the Hebrew Scriptures into verses; then in the 13th century of our Common Era chapter divisions were added. Finally, in 1553 Robert Estienne’s edition of the French Bible was published as the first complete Bible with the present chapter and verse divisions." This post was edited by texasescimo at December 6, 2017 1:27 PM MST

The whole bible was written by some interpreter Jewels, the title is there and that's how it's been interpreted as has the whole book.

I don't think the title to Ezek 28 you mentioned is in the manuscripts or in all Bible translations? What version and edition are you looking at? Some study edition?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+27%3A36+-+Ezek+28%3A1&version=KJV

Ezekiel 27:36-28:1King James Version (KJV)

³⁶ The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt be any more.

28 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,