Discussion»Statements»Rosie's Corner» Is everyone equal in Heaven? Do the rich live in wealthy neighborhoods with servants and other pricy things? Does God have favorites?
Do you know when to give it a rest? Going around running down God, Jesus, the Bible and anyone that believes different than you. You make bold claims about the Bible and can't stand it when someone shows you the context. Perhaps if you actually read the Bible, you will be better able to discuss it?
Tell yourself whatever you like, Texas. I have studied the Bible, at length, as well as the seminal works of many other faiths. I’ve also studied the histories of those works.
It’s all so obviously cobbled-together folklore and backward historical rubbish, that I find your course of asserting “context”, laughable in the extreme. You wanna prop up your fable, dredge up more of that fable. Puh-leez. Appealing to what you can’t prove; argument from authority. Logical fallacy much?
Are you aware HOW MANY of Christ’s words were recorded verbatim by anyone who actually heard him speak? I’ll save you the verbiage: it’s exactly ZERO.
I find value in exposing what I see as wicked preachments, discrediting the nonsense and apparatus of false belief systems that have enslaved my species for far too long.
You preach what you like.
This post was edited by Don Barzini at February 2, 2018 4:49 AM MST
So much I would like to discuss with you that I don't know where to start.
I am sure that you have studied what others have said in relation to the Bible but have you read the Bible itself? If so, what translation/s?
Argument from authority? Logical fallacy? Don't think so. Reading the context of a verse in the Bible in relation to surrounding verses and other relevant verses to ascertain what the internal message is has nothing to do with rather or not I am saying the Bible is true or the verses are true, assuming that is what you are saying, yes?
As far as Christ's words being recorded by anyone who heard them, yes. Matthew and John were early disciples and heard and recorded some of what Jesus said. 1 John 1:1-3. Many Bible writers did not identify themselves so as to take credit and the gospel writers didn't sit around with a notepad while Jesus dictated or something if that is what you are expecting. Luke wasn't an eyewitness to everything that he recorded but, yes, he recorded some of what he himself witnessed and heard. Mark likely received much of his information from Peter. Of course there are many critics that will say the gospels were not written by the persons the books are named after or even that they were penned in the same century as Jesus existed, but then again, some still claim Jesus never existed although most reputable historians now admit that he did. Until 1961 expert critics said that Pontius Pilate never existed. If you question the timing of Matthew like some 'expert critics', this may be of interest: [Scholar Redates Bible Manuscript
According to Carsten Peter Thiede, a German expert in papyrology, there is strong evidence that three papyrus fragments of the Gospel of Matthew (known as the Magdalen Papyrus) were written in the first century.
After comparing the fragments (containing parts of Matthew chapter 26) with an ancient business letter found in Egypt, Thiede noted that the Egyptian document resembles “the Magdalen Papyrus almost like a twin—in general appearance and in the shape and formation of individual letters.” Thiede and coauthor Matthew D’Ancona conclude in their book Eyewitness to Jesus—Amazing New Manuscript Evidence About the Origin of the Gospels that the similarities between the two documents indicate that they were written at about the same time. When? The business document is dated “‘In the year 12 of Nero the Lord, Epeiph 30’—which is, according to our calendar, July 24, 66 [C.E.].”
“This dating, if accurate, is extremely significant,” comments Professor Philip W. Comfort, in an article published in the Tyndale Bulletin, “because it places a manuscript of the Gospel of Matthew within the same century it was written.” It also would make the Magdalen Papyrus the oldest Gospel fragments in existence.]
Apostates being the exception, I don't see anything wrong with listening to supposed expert critics or exegesist (if that's the correct form) as long as one is open minded and willing to check the scriptures or whatever is being discussed. (Acts 17:11)
I was just thinking that billionaires of faith must imagine Heaven to be even better than their earthly lives. Another respondent on this thread said that in Heaven everyone will have a job. Can you imagine a billionaire cleaning latrines on hands and knees? A picture accompanied that answer. I think the poor would just be grateful to be in such a place and no job would be beneath them whereas the wealthy? I dunno. Never having been a billionaire it's really unfair for me to ASSUME how they would react. Thank you for your reply DonB.
This post was edited by RosieG at February 1, 2018 4:29 AM MST
Good question and I don't know the answer. Perhaps it would help to tell you what my idea of heaven is. Everything remains the same EXCEPT there is no hate or war or lies or pain or suffering. That is to say we still have differences of opinion but we discuss them with polite civility and respect. Now that is MY idea of what HEAVEN would be for me. That way I can continue to enjoy what I enjoy on earth only in a more benign setting. What would HEAVEN be for thee DonB if you believed in it?
Well I suppose "favorites" in the sense that God calls some people to believe and some people just don't. Otherwise there would be no justice and everybody would be saved regardless. But things like wealthy neighborhoods and pricy things - you don't get those in heaven. Heaven is eternal fellowship with God. Do you remember that old song "In Heaven there is no beer, that's why we drink it here..."? Well that is true - here is the place for enjoying pricey things and good neighborhoods because we won't find them in heaven! And oh btw my husband and I have no "servants" - we hire people to, for instance, wire our home or to do structural repairs etc. - things we don't know how to do ourselves - but they are independent contractors. Which most servants are these days anyway. Days are long gone when a family was able to dictate to servants what their lifestyle should be.
Like any other living ,growing life form ,plant life ,bacteria ,disease on this planet Rosie .......when it's dead it no longer exists ......none toddle off to wondourous places to live in eternal bliss.......
Once your dead you stay dead and only memories of you linger for a short while in other living thinking life forms....
Here's MY idea of Heaven D. FYI. Everything remains the same EXCEPT there is no hate, war, lies, pain, suffering. We still have differences of opinion but we discuss them with respect and are always polite. Now that is my idea of HEAVEN. Does it exist? I won't know until I die and maybe I will just drift off into an empty void of darkness where I will disintegrate and become one with the universe. Or maybe I won't. But I certainly have no problem at all imagining what I'd prefer. So I do so about lots of things, Heaven being one of them. That is why we have imaginations D. Unused they shrivel and die. Thank you for your reply! :)
What ever makes you happy Rosie ... I choose not to hurt anyone that that's non aggressive or violent to others.....same with all governments including my own..... I suppose you can also blame weapons and munitions manufactures for making so many things that kill and so many indiscriminately to....
I would never work for a company that manufactures nor invest in anything harmful to anyone. That lets out a lot. I couldn't earn a living in good conscience with anything less than something that is at least BENIGN if not helpful. Thank you for your reply D! :)
No. There are different rewards based on our deeds. Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Bibles in Rev says some will be with Jesus as Kings and priests.
There's that old saw about camels and needles (Mt 19:24), although it seems likely that the Greek was mis-transcribed at some point. The Koine Greek words for "camel" and "rope" are almost identical - one vowel changes. In context, "rope through the eye of a needle" makes a lot more sense - still an impossibility but not a ridiculous one. The apostles, some being fishermen, were extremely familiar with hawsers - heavy ropes for mooring ships. Camels weren't unknown in Galilee but weren't common either. A rope also bears some slight similarity to the thread they were accustomed to passing through the eye of a needle to mend their nets. I'm more inclined to reflect on Mt 7:21-23. Look it up. Hypocrites will be shown the door. And Mt 19:30 - the last shall be first and vice versa. The important, if they get there at all, will get far less than those who now serve them.
"Look it up"? You have it in front of you and could have provided it to me and you say look it up? Reminds me of that major SOB on Answerbag who always said "Google it" in reply to any question I asked. I told him that I cannot carry on a two-way conversation with Google and that is why I joined an internet social site. To talk to other people. He always said the same dam* thing and I did too until I just stopped bothering. So I'm not gonna look it up. I've lived this long without knowing so on I shall carry on in my ignorance. It's ok. I don't mind. Thank you for your reply. "It easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven" or words to that effect. Yes rope makes more sense. You thread a needle you don't rope it or camel it. Happy Thursday to thee.
I sometimes do ask folks to look up Bible verses - firstly I'm typing on a tablet and it's slow (those are longish verses), and it gets ppl to actually read their Bible.
Okey dokey kiddo. So you meant no slap-in-the-face response then. The guy on Answerbag who always said "Google it" did. Apologies for the conflation. :(
I think that they are pretty much equal although they may have different duties or oversight in different areas? There is a parable making the point that they should not seek prominence over one another and Jesus condemned the religious leaders of his day for as much. (Mt 23:5-12; Mt 25) A common misconception is that everyone goes to heaven or hell and the earth is to be burned up. (KJV) John the Baptist is not in heaven or going to heaven and neither is David, a man agreeable to God's heart. Those bought from the earth are a limited number. (Rom 11:25) They will rule over the earth and even judge angels.
(Matthew 11:11) Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. (Acts 2:34) For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand
(Revelation 5:10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” (1 Corinthians 6:3) Do you not know that we will judge angels? Then why not matters of this life?
(Galatians 3:26-28) You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. (1 Corinthians 12:13) For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit. (Romans 10:12) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. (Colossians 3:10, 11) and clothe yourselves with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythʹi·an, slave, or freeman; but Christ is all things and in all.
(Psalm 37:10, 11) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. (Psalm 37:29) The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it. (Psalm 37:9) For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth. (Proverbs 2:21) For only the upright will reside in the earth, And the blameless will remain in it. (Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
Don Barzini 