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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » We often hear "The Bible says "this" and the Bible said "that"". Can the Bible itself be turned into an idol?

We often hear "The Bible says "this" and the Bible said "that"". Can the Bible itself be turned into an idol?

Did The Lord God command and sanction the creation of a Bible?

Posted - April 7, 2018

Responses


  • 7776
    The Bible was written by very fallible men years and years after Jesus time. God didn't sanction anything. However, it's the greatest fairytale ever. This post was edited by Zack at June 7, 2018 12:02 AM MDT
      April 7, 2018 4:40 PM MDT
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  • 5354
    I think you mean 'fallible' (able to make mistakes) rather than 'infallible' (cannot make mistakes)
      April 7, 2018 4:45 PM MDT
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  • 7776
    My bad.
      April 7, 2018 4:56 PM MDT
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  • 16197
    The New Testament begins chronologically with the Epistles of Paul (nee Saul of Tarsus), approximately 20 years after the death (and proclaimed Resurrection) of Yeshua. Some of those are considered authentic and two decades isn't an impossibly long time, most histories are written after considerably more time than that. The Gospel of Mark was penned some time between 65 and 70 CE - that's the earliest of those.
    The Old Testament is centuries older than that, the Qumran scrolls are quite definitely BCE. Even the account of the Hasmonean revolt against the Seleucids (in the apocryphal books of the Maccabees) predate the birth of Yeshua.
      April 7, 2018 10:10 PM MDT
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  • 5835
    God is the God of rightness. The bible is His word. The only way you could make an idol of it is if you didn't read it. The Roman Catholics tried to do that for a while, printing bibles in Latin because lay followers had to accept what priests told them it said.

    Witch covens to this day discourage written records for the same reason: they want followers to depend on verbal orders, without documentary evidence.

    In the 19th century Americans started moving west and three institutions went with them. There was vaudeville, traveling entertainment. There was lyceum, traveling education and culture. And there was the itinerant preacher, offering a new style of preaching called "hell fire and brim stone". It was very entertaining, only loosely based on scripture, and pastors didn't even try to compete.

    Instead they switched to preaching public morality and philosophy. Eventually an entire generation grew up not knowing the first thing about the religion they claimed to believe. That is why most Christian churches don't teach doctrines, and most members don't know what they are supposed to believe. They have made an idol of "faith of our fathers" and they don't even know what "faith" means. But by god they're willing to die for it.

    Christian churches sometimes have bible study sessions, but they are always bumbling failures because almost nobody knows how to study the bible.
      April 7, 2018 5:32 PM MDT
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  • 5391
    To the point of your first question- Absolutely, yes.
    When a defendant in court (for example) is made to swear on the Bible, it is used as an idol. 
    When evangelists wave it about during a sermon, it is again used as an idol. 

    There is no account within the Bible to indicate it was written by God’s expressed direction. It is clear the Bible was compiled from various writings, over generations, by early Christian clerics to be the primary guidebook of their faith. 
      April 7, 2018 8:03 PM MDT
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  • 16197
    You do have to be very clear on Testaments. The OT was set down centuries before the birth of Christ. The Qumran scrolls (which predate Him) are proof of that, even though they're incomplete.
      April 7, 2018 10:00 PM MDT
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  • 5391
    Yes, the first five books of the Christian Bible were lifted from the centuries-old Jewish Torah, and the other books were accreted from other sources “over generations” as I noted. 
    The collection of texts were picked over for the Canon during Counsel of Nicaea, in 325. Not all the available “Gospels” made the cut. 
      April 8, 2018 5:28 AM MDT
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  • 16197
    None of the Old Testament was compiled "by early Christian clerics", however. The Old Testament existed in its entirety prior to the birth of Christ - including those books which the Catholic Church accepts as canonical and the rest of Christendom doesn't. Those were tossed out well after the Nicene council.
    Those Gospels and Epistles which missed were those whose authorship was open to question, and whose theology was inconsistent with the rest of them. The Gospels of Thomas were heretical, and almost certainly penned by Gnostics. 
      April 8, 2018 10:20 AM MDT
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  • 5391
    I think we are saying the same thing. The Christian Bible contains sections of Jewish scripture, which were selected by said Christian clerics to include in the OT. 
      April 8, 2018 11:17 AM MDT
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  • 5835
    Exodus 17:14 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

    Deuteronomy 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

    Deuteronomy 27:3 And thou shalt write upon them all the words of this law, when thou art passed over, that thou mayest go in unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, a land that floweth with milk and honey; as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee.

    Deuteronomy 27:8 And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.

    Proverbs 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

    Proverbs 7:3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.
      April 8, 2018 7:26 AM MDT
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  • 5391
    Jules, thanks for following up, but:

    The quote you cited from Exodus is clearly in reference to the Ten Commandments, not 66 books of allegories and parables; Deuteronomy refers to it’s own Mosaic laws, which are detailed in the Torah and Talmud (they are NOT The Bible, correct?); and it is open to interpretation what exactly “the table of thine heart” actually is. 

    The Bible, such as it is, Is absent of God’s instruction to write it, which is specific to the question at hand.  
      April 8, 2018 10:04 AM MDT
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  • 5835
    Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

    God Himself maintains the integrity of His word. If the new testament does not say what He wants it to say then it is up to Him to send a teacher to expound His word more perfectly. An example of that is found in Acts 18:24-26 when Apollos is informed that water baptism is a thing of the past.
      April 8, 2018 4:53 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Pretty sure that it was by holy spirit that we have copies of all the scrolls, books and letters preserved for us today. Nice to have them conveniently bound together in a Bible. It is my understanding that after the writings that make up the Bible were complete and the death of the apostles and those they laid hands on that gifts of tongues, inspiration of prophecies and such would cease. 

    (Deuteronomy 17:18, 19) When he takes his seat on the throne of his kingdom, he must write for himself in a book a copy of this Law, taken from the one kept by the Levitical priests. 19 “It is to remain with him, and he must read from it all the days of his life, so that he may learn to fear Jehovah his God and observe all the words of this Law and these regulations by carrying them out.
    (1 Corinthians 10:11) Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.
    (2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
    (1 Corinthians 13:9, 10) For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.
    (Romans 15:4) For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.



    CHRISTIAN GREEK SCRIPTURES
    [So designated to distinguish them from the pre-Christian Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. It is a common practice to call this latter portion of the Bible the New Testament.—See BIBLE.
    There are 27 canonical books that make up the Christian Greek Scriptures. After the death of Jesus, these books were penned under inspiration by eight men: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter, and Jude. Not all these men followed Jesus during his ministry; in fact, as far as is known for a certainty, only the three apostles Matthew, John, and Peter did. Mark may have been the “certain young man” who followed Jesus at a distance after he was arrested. (Mr 14:51, 52) At Pentecost, James, Jude, and perhaps Mark were present along with them. (Ac 1:13-15; 2:1) Later the apostle Paul was converted. All these writers became closely associated with the governing body of the first-century congregation in Jerusalem.
    In what language were these books originally written? With the exception of the book of Matthew, which was written originally in Hebrew and later translated into Greek, all the other 26 books were written in the common Greek, Koine, the international language of the day.—See MATTHEW, GOOD NEWS ACCORDING TO.
    Nor was it a mere coincidence that these inspired Christian men, all of them natural-born Jews (Ro 3:1, 2), had their writings sent out in Greek. These were not private communications but were intended for wide circulation, to be read and studied by all the congregations. (Col 4:16; 1Th 5:27; 2Pe 3:15, 16) The writers were under divine command to spread this good news and teaching to the most distant part of the earth, to places where Hebrew and Latin were not read. (Mt 28:19; Ac 1:8) Even in territories closer to Palestine, there was an increasingly large number of non-Jews coming into the local congregations. Also, when quoting the Hebrew Scriptures, these writers frequently used the Greek Septuagint.
    The books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, listed according to the approximate year (C.E.) written, are as follows: Matthew, 41; 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 50 and 51; Galatians, 50-52; 1 and 2 Corinthians, 55; Romans, 56; Luke, 56-58; Ephesians, Colossians, Philemon, Philippians, 60-61; Hebrews, Acts, 61; James, before 62; Mark, 60-65; 1 Timothy, Titus, 61-64; 1 Peter, 62-64; 2 Peter, 64; 2 Timothy, Jude, 65; Revelation, 96; John and 1, 2, 3 John, 98. This period of less than 60 years is quite a contrast with the nearly 11 centuries taken to complete the Hebrew Scriptures.
    When it came time to combine these books of the Christian Greek Scriptures into a single volume, they were not assembled in the order in which they were written. Rather, they were put in a logical arrangement according to subject matter, which can be classified as (1) the five historical books of the Gospels and Acts, (2) the 21 letters, and (3) the Revelation.
    The four Gospels (the word “Gospel” meaning “good news”), written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, give us a fourfold historical account of the life and activity of Jesus, each account being an independent report. The first three of these are sometimes called synoptic (meaning “like view”) because they have a relatively similar approach to Jesus’ ministry in comparison with John’s Gospel, yet each reflects individualism on the part of the writer. John’s Gospel fills in certain details omitted by the other three. The Acts of Apostles then follows in logical sequence, carrying the history of the Christian congregation as established at Pentecost on down nearly 30 years after the death of Jesus.
    The congregation’s inner workings, its problems, its public preaching, its other privileges, and its hopes are dealt with in the 21 letters that follow the historical section. Paul is named as the writer of 13 letters. The letter to the Hebrews is also generally ascribed to Paul. Following these writings is a group of letters, most of which were written to all the congregations in general, by James, Peter, John, and Jude. Lastly, as a delightful climax to the whole Bible, is the Revelation with its preview of profound events of the future....]

      April 8, 2018 11:59 AM MDT
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  • 5835
    It is my understanding that after the writings that make up the Bible were complete and the death of the apostles and those they laid hands on that gifts of tongues, inspiration of prophecies and such would cease. 
    My bible does not say any such thing. 

    1 Corinthians 12:
    7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

    "Every man", get it?

    8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

    To one what? "One" is a pronoun referring to the last preceding qualified noun. That is "profit". The manifestation is given to every man, but different effects to different profits.

    9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

    10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

    11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

    Again, "he" is a pronoun referring to the last preceding qualified noun and that is "man". Dividing to every man as he, the man, wills.

    A big reason for rampant misunderstandings of the bible, after not reading it, is lack of training in simple English.
      April 8, 2018 5:03 PM MDT
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  • 5835
    1 Cor 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

    Healing is the only manifestation called a gift. It is the only manifestation that does not directly affect the person doing the manifesting. It is given to someone else.
      April 8, 2018 5:11 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    (1 Corinthians 13:8-10) Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.

    (Matthew 7:21-23) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’


    Food for thought:
    [Are true Christians today identified by the ability to “speak in tongues”?
    John 13:35: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”
    1 Cor. 13:1, 8: “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal. Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.”
    Jesus said that holy spirit would come upon his followers and that they would be witnesses of him to the most distant part of the earth. (Acts 1:8) He instructed them to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” (Matt. 28:19) He also foretold that ‘this good news of the kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all nations.’ (Matt. 24:14) Who today, both as a group and individually, are doing this work? In harmony with what Jesus said, should we not look for this as an evidence that a group has holy spirit?

    Is
    ‘speaking in tongues’ to continue until that which is “perfect” comes?
    At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek teʹlei·on, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue.
    However, the Bible does indicate how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would be a part of Christian experience. According to the record, this gift and the other gifts of the spirit were always conveyed to persons by the laying on of hands of the apostles of Jesus Christ or in their presence. (Acts 2:4, 14, 17; 10:44-46; 19:6; see also Acts 8:14-18.) Thus, after their death and when the individuals who in that way had received the gifts died, the miraculous gifts resulting from the operation of God’s spirit must have come to their end. Such a view agrees with the purpose of those gifts as stated at Hebrews 2:2-4.

    Does
    not Mark 16:17, 18 (KJ) show that the ability to “speak with new tongues” would be a sign identifying believers?
    It should be noted that these verses refer not only to ‘speaking with new tongues’ but also to handling serpents and drinking deadly poison. Are all who “speak in tongues” also encouraging these practices?]
      April 8, 2018 6:57 PM MDT
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  • 5835
    It is not reliable to let people tell you what the bible says. Many people will make up stuff because they don't know what it says, and many will make up stuff because they wish it would not say what it says. You just have to read it for yourself. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don't have to believe anything. Just read to find wisdom. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians. Here is a book to help you to understand the bible. It's a free download and you can get a hard copy at any bible book store.
    www.philologos.org/__eb-htetb/ "How To Enjoy The Bible"
      April 9, 2018 2:36 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    I've read the Bible. I have also done comparative study on certain subjects in many different translations. No one tells me what to believe. I listen to what they say and then check the scriptures to see if that is so the biblical way.

    Jesus said we can know the truth. We have to pray for Holy Spirit to help our understanding, read with an open mind, and be willing to let go of any preconceived ideas as we find out that they are not really from the Bible. The Ethiopian Eunuch was humble enough to accept help from Philip and the Beroeans were humble enough to listen to Paul and check the scriptures closely to see if what Paul was saying was so as he reasoned with them from the scriptures.
    (Acts 17:2) So according to Paul’s custom he went inside to them, and for three sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
    (Acts 17:10-11) Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Be•roe′a, and these, upon arriving, went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes•sa•lo•ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.

    Sometimes we need help like the Ethiopian eunuch. (Acts 8:26-40) We also need to consult all scriptures on a subject and let scripture interpret scripture.
    (Genesis 40:8) [...Do not interpretations belong to God?..."
    (2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
    (1 Corinthians 4:6) {...that in our case YOU may learn the [rule]:Do not go beyond the things that are written...}
    (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine


    Notice that earlier Manuscripts do not include Mark 16:9-16:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+16%3A8--+18&version=KJV;ESV;NASB;NLT;NIV
      April 9, 2018 6:21 AM MDT
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  • 7280
    Of course it can--JW's have done the best job of that.

    Edit:  They even refuse to accept that God might have chosen to establish a mechanism for further explanation to His creation of anything that He already caused to be written therein. This post was edited by tom jackson at April 8, 2018 3:33 PM MDT
      April 8, 2018 3:28 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Your Popes apostate decisions have no affect on me. It's a shame that you have so little regard for the Bible. Of course being born in to a religion that has history of burning bibles as well as those that translate the bible in to the language of the people may make it a bit harder for you to read the Bible for what it says.
      April 8, 2018 6:34 PM MDT
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  • 2706
      I believe it can. For instance, too many folks take verses out of context and make it a pretext or use it as proof text to build their own set of beliefs by it.  This is nothing short of idolatry.  Instead of worshiping a graven image they worship their favorite texts and use them to create doctrines.  This always turns out badly because text must always be read within the context of the whole chapter and even the book.  God never intended to have us use one text and to build a belief system on it. It takes the whole Word to get the whole counsel of God.  The only thing we might not do is bow down and worship the Bible but when we idolize certain verses over and against other verses or people, we are creating a god in our own likeness and a Bible of our own beliefs. 

      April 8, 2018 4:09 PM MDT
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  • 492
    Yes, if you sincerely believe in "this" and "that".
      April 9, 2018 4:49 AM MDT
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  • 1326
    A true christian does not idolize the bible, instead it is a cherished and much valued document that provides answers to life's questions. Psalms 19:7-11 says: "The law of Jehovah is perfect  restoring strength. The reminder of Jehovah is trustworthy, making the inexperienced one wise. The orders from Jehovah are righteous, causing the heart to rejoice; the commandment of Jehovah is clean, making the eyes shine. The fear of Jehovah is pure, lasting forever. The judgements of Jehovah are true, altogether righteous. They are more desirable than gold, than much fine gold, and sweeter than honey, the honey that drips from the comb. By them your serveant has been warned; in keeping them there is a large reward." 
      April 18, 2018 11:40 PM MDT
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