Do liberals hate President Trump more than they love America?

I believe all of Trump business bankrupcties were casino related. How do you go bankrupt in a casino....you borrow to much to build it and then have a recession. 

The opioid crisis was going on long before Trump took office. The hookworm epidemic you spoke of couldn't have possibly come for immigrants coming from third world countries, could it? I find it a little off putting that you were slightly condescending in a lot of your comments to officegirl.  

Hookworm never left the US: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/09/12/550387650/the-u-s-thought-it-was-rid-of-hookworm-wrong 

It thrives in poor areas, particularly those with sewage issues: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/05/hookworm-lowndes-county-alabama-water-waste-treatment-poverty 

My comment about the opioid crisis wasn't necessarily aimed at Trump, just a remark about our nation in general. But, overdose deaths of all types have increased since he took office. That's not to say trouble wasn't brewing before him and I'm not necessarily blaming him, but the fact that we're still succumbing to drug issues is indicative of our level of "prosperity," in my opinion. I care more about what's happening with this, with our poor, and with our elderly and children- the vulnerable populations- than what's happening with the portfolios of the upper class. https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates 

As for being condescending, sometimes words don't translate well in writing. It was not my intent to talk down to her. I'd rather encourage discussion and I have already apologized for upsetting her. I think I probably censor myself less with her because I have spoken to her for years on this site- I worry less about how she will perceive my words because we've had so many conversations (literally hundreds at this point), whereas I'm more mindful with my words when I'm talking to someone I don't have the same kind of experiences with. I certainly value her opinions and her as a person and if that didn't come across in how I spoke to her, then it's more a matter of me feeling overly comfortable than intentionally disrespecting her. But, absolutely, if she felt I was condescending, I will apologize for that too. 

Oops! I didn't see you'd responded with the same link. Sorry. :)

I guess that technically those most affected ARE "immigrants" from third world countries. They didn't come here by choice, though. They were captured, brought to this country, and enslaved. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/09/12/550387650/the-u-s-thought-it-was-rid-of-hookworm-wrong

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/05/hookworm-lowndes-county-alabama-water-waste-treatment-poverty

But most of these are issues that have been ongoing for years. They haven't suddenly cropped up since he took office. However, GDP is up and unemployment is down in the last 20 months. Those are measurable changes.

Here's a fun statistic Stu... How many people were unemployed in 2016? The answer is 95 million. Now, how many people are unemployed today? Trick question! The answer is still 95 million. How does that work and still show a decline? Trump math! You just stop counting people! Brilliant. https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sure-unemployment-went-down-because-the-number-of-people-working-did/#44eec4d3408b 

We can do some more Trump math with the GDP. See, a big part of this growth is tax cuts (which the wealthy benefited most from), which added to our deficit because less money is coming in. Apparently, all you gotta do is move some money around that we don't have and people apparently have faith. Pretty cool smoke and mirrors. The deficit was at $666 billion under Obama, now it's on a path to one trillion. Yup, it spurred growth, but the growth isn't equal to the deficit. Meaning... we're about to get nailed. Big time. It's kind of like taking a pay cut at work and using your credit cards to get by, hoping you'll get a big raise in the future that will let you pay it off. It's not smart. 

So, yes, measurable changes. Increased debt. Less income. Joblessness remains the same. And, if you choose to give Trump credit for those things, have at it. 

As far as the issues being ongoing for years... well, one would argue that if you're going to give him credit for making changes you feel are in the best interests of the country, which were also related to ongoing issues, then he should also accept the blame for not fixing the other problems. As I said earlier, however, we're basing prosperity on different things. Even if Trump math was accurate, he'd still be failing to help create prosperity in my mind because he's not looking out for our most vulnerable citizens. 

Depending whom you consider our most vulnerable citizens, I'm not sure what president has looked out for them.

I didn't vote for Trump and I don't disagree with everything you said, but I feel that much of the vitriol directed at him is hyperbole that paraphrases what people have read or heard in the media rather than actual thoughts and facts grounded in their own minds. It's almost as if they want to take the easy way out and not make too much effort.

Some have done better than others, but, again, that's not really the point. The point is that the litmus test I'm giving for Trump is related to that and if you're gauging his success or failure based on something other than that, then we'll likely never agree on whether he's successful or not. Different criteria. 

I find it doubtful anyone here just listens to the news and goes with that. Muggers are generally critical thinkers... we just wind up on different sides of the coin a lot. All the same, we're all using data we hear to form opinions. 

I firmly believe, however, that certain prolific posters who need no identification are quite reactionary and sometimes fail to think very critically before posting.

A while back, some company... perhaps an insurance company... did surveys on cell phones and driving. They asked people probing questions about the safety of doing certain things, like talking while driving and texting while driving. Across the board, people agreed these kinds of behaviors were dangerous. Later, they were asked which habits they engage in and how dangerous it is for them to do it. The result: most people engage in the same behaviors they agree are dangerous, but they think they're less dangerous than the other drivers when they do it. 

It's bias that causes these reactions, and most people are blissfully unaware they have them, but we all do. Every last one of us. We are all influenced by what we've seen and heard as well as by our own prior experiences and our personalities. And, I don't mean bias in a hateful sense. I mean it in a psychological sense. Our human brains are wired for bias. All of us.

I think you're intelligent and a critical thinker. I also pointed out that the phrasing of your question sounded exactly like Trump's propaganda/ scapegoating. I could make an argument that your phrasing wasn't an original thought. Maybe it was you assimilating information and drawing your own conclusions. Maybe your phrasing was influenced by the media and propaganda. The reality is, you may not know why you chose that wording- only that it felt right to you at the time. But, even if it did come from a bias or after hearing Trump speak the same way repeatedly, does it make you less intelligent or less of a critical thinker? I don't think so. It would make you remarkably human. 

OK.

What about working folks and retirement savings? My IRA has grown more than 40% in the last 20 months and my small stake in Apple (fewer than 50 shares) has soared. That's not crap to me. I'm not terribly rich and I'm certainly not crapping on anyone. And I am most definitely more than reasonably well informed.

Your comment is long on anger and hyperbole and short on actual facts. What's up with that? This post was edited by Stu Spelling Bee at September 27, 2018 11:23 AM MDT

Good to hear that things are going well for the "not terribly rich".  

Here's just one of many facts that evokes anger in those of us with an ounce of empathy:

20% of working Americans have zero retirement savings. It's very difficult to think about saving for the future when you're living at or near poverty level. Most are more focused on saving for health insurance deductibles and out-of-pocket medical expenses, in the hope that they can stay alive long enough to think about retiring. 

So nobody has empathy but you? Your statement, if accurate, also means that 80% of working Americans do have retirement savings. That's a lot more than 20%. I bet that statistic has not changed significantly in the last two years, and those folks' lack of such is no more President Trump's fault than it was President Obama's before him or President Bush's before him.

Instead of being so angry, what solution do you suggest? Savings takes sacrifice in the present and is not easy or possible for everyone, but it is up to each of us to do so or not for ourselves. It is not the responsibility of government, although we do have Social Security. This post was edited by Stu Spelling Bee at September 27, 2018 11:23 AM MDT

BLESS YOUR HEART! 

That's not a solution!

LMAO