I cannot and will not care the opinions on a man who condone's Muhammad's actions of child-rape, slavery-owning ways.
As I am sure you are well aware, Salih al-Bukhari records that Aisha herself narrated her age as six at the time of marriage, and nine at consummation.
"Without any proof, Muhammad claimed that Allah had given Aisha, the 6-year-old daughter of his companion, to him for marriage in a dream. After coercing the father(even this father knew Muhammad would rape his child but saw no other option), Muhammad married the little girl, but because she was very ill, he waited until she was 9 to have sex with her. Still, this didn’t stop him from molesting her before her 9th birthday. From her own words, the “mother of the believers” confirms her own rape:
Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: ‘I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).'” (Bukhari 7.65)"
It does not matter what practices were held that and how common child rape was. What matters is that Allah's right hand man is a child rapist. Now if that's what people blindly followed (or led to by those adults/ old men who like screwing kids) by people what do you think becomes of them?
Did you know Muhammad 'married' Saffiya after murdering her entire family including har father and husband? Her alternative might be being gang-raped, or sex slave of another man. I guess he really is the best saviour. There are plenty of references of him condoning rape, and committing it himself (Rayhana is another one) .
The whole tenet of Christinity lies in Jesus Christ, even if the Old Testament God was violent like Allah the new testament had Jesus Christ who really to be quiet honest I think saved mankind once or twice in history.
The murders, slavery and sexual torture Allah's men partook is quite damning. It don't matter what some people did back then, surely Allah would know better. Or should I say a good God?
You can find all the evidence in the Quran and Hadiths (well if you know how to read and use the internet all the answers are already in the holy books), and imams and whatnots mostly know this shit. But the ordinary smart well-off somewhat liberal Muslim in a Westernized country probably has zero clue.
People say that was happened in those times. Okay sure, but no one else is worshipping and following a deity that does that shit don't it? No one else was claiming to all so good and holy and most importantly RIGHT.
Because it was not right now and it was not then. And if God say otherwise I have a problem with worshipping an immoral deity.
Like religion in general: Islam is regressive for society, not progressive.
1. You’ve posted a lot of what you have called “this shit” which you say “imams and whatnots mostly know [about]. But the ordinary smart well-off somewhat liberal Muslim in a Westernized country probably has zero clue [of].”
2. That there is far more of such [to use a more polite word] muck about out there is very easy to understand. After all there is no prize for guessing that by very far the most strongly and widely disliked major world religion is Islam. So the existence of mountains of muck against it is hardly surprising. But as they say, where there is muck there is gold.
3. Those who dig with determination till they find the gold or gems, you can help them by removing the impurities from what they bring back. Those intent on bringing back only muck, it’s a waste of time telling them about the gems that can be found or about those who dug with determination till they found them.
4. I think digging for gold until you find it and then using it for the good of society must be quite satisfying and fulfilling, but even if you use it for yourself it’s still good and worth it. However, bringing back muck and spreading it around isn’t going to benefit society and even if you don’t spread it but keep it to yourself it’s not going to benefit you.
5. It’s fair to say that a person’s dislike of Islam is proportional to the information against Islam that they have found and accepted. So the more a person dislikes Islam the more anti-Islamic information they’re likely to have. I doubt whether your dislike of Islam is in the same league as that of the right wing anti-Islam Dutch Freedom Party of Geert Wilders or the anti-Islam AfD, Alternative for Germany, party which claims that "Islam does not belong to Germany". I would guess that people in those parties might have more anti-Islamic information than you have, yet a leading member from each of those parties has ditched the muck for the gold. It's hopeful and heartening to know when good comes out of intense and destructive bad.
This post was edited by CLURT at October 13, 2018 7:01 PM MDT
There is a school of thought that believes that quote to be a mis-transcription. "Kamelos", camel, rather than "kamilos", rope - which makes more sense. Many of the apostles were fishermen, dealt with ropes constantly - you can't thread a needle with a rope, but it does bear some similarity to yarn, which a camel doesn't.
sounds quite plausible, sbf. If it was to be an animal, then why a camel and not a donkey, say? After all donkeys were in use more commonly than camels.
if rationality, scepticism and having one's wits about oneself can lead to Satanism then perhaps all our universities have been in the grip of Satanism, not to mention all of us who try to be rational, sceptic and having our wits about us.
This post was edited by CLURT at October 11, 2018 6:47 AM MDT
"That's precisely my concern." >>> being possessed? No worries. Luke 10:17-19 reassuringly says "The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name.” "Yes," he told them, "I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning! See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you."
That's cool. I myself have never seen priests outside their robes. Despite my lack of belief and a distrust of religions I think they look kinda nice in their robes. Respectable and holy.
I've seen a priest stripped to the waist, in cargoes and steel-caps, swinging a mattock. He was helping in the construction a a new church, and was just as big and burly as the other workmen.
Assuming you dress differently for work than for other pursuits, do you wear your work clothes at home and in bed? Why do you think clergy are any different from you or me in that regard?
I would imagine in some denominations and religions the priest, minister, or leader does wear a robe or collar away from the church. The reasons why they do this varies. Some do it out of tradition. Some do it to show who and what they are. Others do so to show how humble they are. Then, there are clergy in the church or a religion that parades themselves as if they were participating in fashion shows; churches became a place where the wealthy and the self-righteous dressed for public adoration and acclamation (on Easter Sunday in particular). The bottom line here is that God looks at what is in a person's heart and not all of the trappings and accouterments they're wearing. :)
This post was edited by rusureamisure? at October 10, 2018 3:10 PM MDT
Why do you assume that clergy all wear robes or other special garments? Here is Rabbi Carie Carter, spiritual leader of my congregation, Park Slope Jewish Center. She is pictured standing in our sanctuary dressed as she usually is when performing her rabbinical duties on Shabbat and holidays. She dresses no differently than her congregants, usually in a suit or top and pants in addition to a kippah on her head and a tallis around her shoulders as ritually appropriate. The rabbi in Judaism is not considered to be higher or somehow closer to God than lay congregants, and this is reflected in that many rabbis wear "regular" clothing, even when officiating. She can even be seen in jeans and sneakers on less formal, non-ritual occasions.
And yes, as you might surmise from her smile, she is a wonderfully warm, friendly, and compassionate woman and spiritual leader.
This post was edited by Stu Spelling Bee at October 11, 2018 6:21 AM MDT
CLURT 