We are sinners and we hope for salvation through the atonement of Jesus. God (Jesus) is very real to us and personal. the Bible was not written by Jesus but by humans inspired by God. The Bible tells us about Jesus and His teachings are in it.
Sounds like you at least read part of the Bible. Jesus did not think or teach that He was God. He considered himself separate from God and when praying to the Father, said He was the only true God. Paul also felt and taught the same. The Bible foretold that an apostasy would develop sometime after the death of the apostles. By the fourth century, it was under full sway with the development of the trinity.
(John 14:1) “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me. (John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6) For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. (1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.
Thank you, I have conversed with you enough to know your opinion, but I have read and studied the Bible for myself and have a well rounded view. There are parables, symbolisms, signs or what have you that are not to be taken literally. Revelation tells you as much for example. Revelation 1:1-3
Got a couple of questions for you to ponder over since you are a Jewish atheist very opposed to even the Hebrew scriptures in the Bible. The first question is due to the amount of atheist I have encountered in the past bringing up the subject of the Amalekites. The second due to you attending a Jewish synagogue although apparently disagreeing with the Jewish scriptures, which I would think they would accept?
Why were the Israelites told to destroy Amalek? Did they follow the order and what was the consequence? How does Dan 9:24-27 work out in reference to the timing of the Messiah?
EDIT: Staying with in the context of my first post, what did the disciples teach and believe about Jesus? What was the purpose of John's letter? What did the Bible say in relation to the apostasy? Do most believe what was taught by Jesus and first century Christians or do most today believe something different? (I am under the impression that your response means that you are taking issue with my mention of the apostasy and a difference in teachings by the fourth century?)
This post was edited by texasescimo at May 19, 2019 10:13 AM MDT
And you know that I am opposed (whatever that means, exactly) to Hebrew scriptures how? Asking questions and doubting literal accuracy does not constitute opposition (again, whatever that means). These are not black-and-white, either/or issues with mutually exclusive positions/answers.
Oh, so you accept the Hebrew scriptures and the fact that there is a God (Isaiah 43)? I thought you had said you were an atheist?
(Exodus 3:15) Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.
(Deuteronomy 4:35) You yourselves have been shown these things so you will know that Jehovah is the true God; there is no other besides him. (Deuteronomy 6:4-6) “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength. 6 These words that I am commanding you today must be on your heart,
(Deuteronomy 5:6, 7) “‘I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 7 You must never have any other gods besides me.
(Joel 2:32) And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as Jehovah has said, The survivors whom Jehovah calls.”
Why can't one be an atheist - not believing in a literal, all-knowing, all-powerful god in human form - and still respect, honor, and read from scriptures, which are basically literature? Why is everything so black and white to you? Is that what Christianity is about?
Okay, so you accept the Hebrew scriptures in the fact that the Hebrew scriptures exist but not that they are truthful, same as you view the Quran, B.O.M., etc? Angels have appeared as humans and as Jehovah's representatives, have spoken as Jehovah himself but God does not and has not appeared in human form. (Numbers 23:19) God is not a mere man who tells lies, Nor a son of man who changes his mind. When he says something, will he not do it? When he speaks, will he not carry it out? (Exodus 33:20)
(Isaiah 29:13) Jehovah says: “This people approach me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips, But their heart is far removed from me; And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.
(Isaiah 48:1) Hear this, O house of Jacob, You who call yourselves by the name of Israel And who have come from the waters of Judah, You who swear by the name of Jehovah And who call on the God of Israel, Though not in truth and righteousness.
(Ezekiel 8:12) He said to me: “Son of man, do you see what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the darkness, each one in the inner rooms where his idols are displayed? For they are saying, ‘Jehovah is not seeing us. Jehovah has left the land.’” (Ezekiel 9:9) So he said to me: “The error of the house of Israel and Judah is very, very great. The land is filled with bloodshed, and the city is full of corruption. For they say, ‘Jehovah has left the land, and Jehovah is not seeing.’
Christianity must be all about black-and-white inflexibility, because all you do is quote scriptures to justify their existence and accuracy, which is just circular logic.
Wrong, the scriptures I quoted to you were not in an attempt to show their accuracy, just the strange relationship between your lack of belief in God while at the same time trying to come off as if you somehow value the Hebrew scriptures. I also said nothing about Christianity.
Can you understand how anyone can say they belong to a religion that professes to follow the Christian Greek scriptures while at the same time they deny Jesus Christ ever existed?
Not any better than you can explain why you act as if Jesus doesn't and never lived and think the Bible was not literally (through instrumental causes) produced.
Of course, the only real issues is whether or not you are wrong or I am wrong---and it's unlikely (although admittedly not impossible) that those of us who are currently living will know with absolute certainty which of us is correct.
This post was edited by tom jackson at May 19, 2019 8:15 AM MDT
I have no idea why you presume to think you know me well enough to know what I do and don't believe. First you called me a Trump supporter, and you were completely wrong. Now you say that I believe that Jesus never existed, and you're wrong again. Should we post odds on what ridiculous notion you'll come up with for strike three?
I do not know how to answer your question. I will only say that Jesus only lived for 33 years. Those of us living now only have our belief from what we read in the bible (if you are a believer), I know after the man was gone, he left us with the holy spirit (he rose on the third day and appeared to many). We who believe read the bible and know that he lived and lives among us. We carry with us his life and servitude to us and the sacrifice he gave to all. I know it takes a believer to understand what I said. If I'm alone in it, I'm okay with that. I respect you for the way you are and I can only ask the same.
It’s what they are taught, Stu. Simple as that. It’s what is repeated and reaffirmed over and over from childhood by respected elders, peers, and perceived voices of authority. It has to be learned from somewhere, ....all 40,000 different versions of it.
Given how elaborate and convoluted Judeo-Christian beliefs are in sum, the plausibility of a “higher“ source can seem reasonable, even if the stories themselves don’t. There is a well-worn psychology at work.
I guess I am just different Don. I had no teaching. I had no elders shoving it in my brain. I had something else. I had this unexplained connection to a belief that I did not grow up in. When my curiosity got the better of me, I picked up the bible. I started with the Gospel of John. I believe and love the Lord. Period.
I also cuss like a sailor, drink, smoke and have tattoos. I love music, play an instrument and manage 3 businesses. All alone, I have my faith and don't make others "believe" like me. I have a quiet love of God and his son and everyone whether they are like me or not. I accept you and like I've said can only ask the same.
In effect, you were taught; by what you read in the gospels. The message there resonated with you at some level, so you embraced it. Some don’t need or want social reinforcement for their faith, because it’s a personal relationship. You see God your way.
As I mentioned, Christianity has 40,000 or so known variations, but to me, the private way you exercise your faith is more in line with Christ’s teachings than the bold and noisy Televangelist, the pushy Evangelical or imperious Catholic take on them. I can certainly respect that.
I myself have studied religion(s) as a personal quest for understanding for nearly 40 years. I have read the Bible cover to cover and can quote scripture at length, as well as other texts like the Talmud, the Vedas and the Quran. All have similar themes, all address the manner of faith differently for their own ends, but none has a message that convinces me of the truth of their premise. But that’s me. I measure these things more objectively than most. I have found no cause to dismiss critical faculty in my world view. Maybe that’s a failing in some eyes, but it has thus far been consistently validated in mine. I hope you can find merit in that also.
It was the exact prescription many of us needed to awaken and explore truths, actual truths that caused people to turn to these "false ideas" in the first place. The answer blew my mind. It is not so much that the tales are outlandish. The truth is even more outlandish. As in, you cannot TELL someone anything. I told you a story that happened to me and we got into a big tussle (because of me) about the fact that you thought the story was outlandish. You thought my believing the story was outlandish and I DO NOT BLAME YOU. Shame on me for ever thinking I could explain something like a miracle. HAAAA HAAA You either experience it or you do not. And if you do not have a valid confirmation by other people that are SANE, you are lost in the water. When a group of people testify to something, OH BROTHER. You get 10000000 different stories even when they all saw the same real physical event. That is only part and parcel as to why we all have different views on God and miracles. And no God at all.
I agree. My post was careful not to speak disparagingly of Christians, the Q obliged that I recognize their devotion to what they believe. As is the case in all faiths.
My issue is with the writings themselves and how dysfunctionally they’ve often been put to use. I won’t hold others to this same standard (that’s what religion does), but I do assert that because someone ”feels” something spiritual or miraculous, it is not a guarantee of reality. Nor is it always a positive for all involved. But these are things people sort out within themselves, and as an Atheist, I insist all be given the same courtesy.
I liked it when te Jehovah Witnesses were here because they did the entire bible and not so much focused only on Jesus and the New Testament. I learned more material from them than I did from the Evangelicals.
I was with the Baha'i Faith people for a few years, they believe their founde of the faith (year 1850) Baha'u'allah (pronounced ba-howla) is the return of Jesus. Could be?
This post was edited by Kittigate at May 19, 2019 7:04 PM MDT
That's Religion for you. Jesus did not produce the Bible, many other People did. But Jesus? Very much alive, Not in a physical body as we generally think alive is, But Christ Consciousness is very much present within all People. And Jesus Himself? Very much present in the realm beyond the Earth Plane. Read Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda. He in his writings discuss many meetings with Jesus. In my one and only meeting with Jesus, (I hope there is more) Many children came from the right side bestowing on me many different kinds of Fruit. Jesus came from above, and the one being that was behind Him, came in from the Left side and stood behind Jesus. When one opens their Heart, and they too can have such a meeting. Cheers.
This post was edited by Baba at May 19, 2019 7:04 PM MDT
Unless one has a relationship with the living Christ, they can never understand what true Christianity is all about. To them Christianity is foolishness.
Because so many human beings are dopey still as so easilly led.....Follow the shoe.... It's states that clearly in the wonderful enlightening film " The Life of Brian" :)
officegirl 