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Discussion » Questions » Legal » If all Americans are equal, why must folks rise when a judge or other official enters the room? Tradition? I wouldn't rise for the 't' word.

If all Americans are equal, why must folks rise when a judge or other official enters the room? Tradition? I wouldn't rise for the 't' word.

That is, of course, moot, as I would never attend anything it was going to attend.

Posted - December 1

Responses


  • 26557
    Good point...but they earned my respect...and they all respected me. That is equality.
      December 1, 2019 8:15 PM MST
    0

  • 5379
    Why do you have a problem with it? And what does "never attend anything it was going to attend" mean? What or who is "it?" If you're talking about never entering a courtroom, it's not always your choice. For example, you could be called for jury service or be served a subpoena compelling you to attend. And if you don't follow protocol, you can be held in contempt of court and face a fine or jail time. Would it be really be worth it to subject yourself to all that?
      December 1, 2019 6:27 PM MST
    1

  • 26557
    'It' is that male semi-human that resides in a big white house.
      December 1, 2019 8:10 PM MST
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  • 26557
    Of course I would go to the court house. I respect that rule.
      December 2, 2019 7:04 AM MST
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  • 11952
    Maybe you wood for mine     :) 
      December 1, 2019 6:28 PM MST
    2

  • 12025
    People are equal under the law.  That doesn't mean they are equal.  It means they all have the same rights under the constitution.  People stand when a judge and jury enter the courtroom as a sign of respect, not for the persons but for the positions and duties with which they are charged. 
      December 1, 2019 6:47 PM MST
    7

  • 17193
    It is a sign of respect. It also serves to get the courtrooms attention and silence the room. Without having to tell people to shut up. By standing you adknowledge that court is in session and to behave as expected. 
    Similar to a elementary teacher saying "Criss Cross Applesauce" and the students know to sit down cross legged, be quiet and listen to the teacher. But in this case it is adults and the phrase is "All Rise."
      December 1, 2019 6:51 PM MST
    3

  • 6254
    For those possibly wondering---

    The second paragraph in the Declaration of Independence states, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”

    The closest thing to the word or concept of "equality" in the Constitution is found in the Fourteenth Amendment. Added to the Constitution in 1868, this amendment contains a clause stating that "no state shall . . . deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    It's a sign of respect for the rule of law and the office of the official who represents the rule of law---not  for the person wearing the judicial robes or another generally recognized uniform---except perhaps coincidentally.

    The rest is some combination of protocol and etiquette---terms that are not particularly precise:  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/difference-between-protocol-etiquette-paul-adrian-raicu 






      December 1, 2019 7:18 PM MST
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  • 26534
      Thank you, good points. Let’s not, however, forget the parts that the “founding fathers” most likely would have us all forget or ignore about the declaration. As a document that espouses independence, it has a dubious reality attached to it that bears scrutiny. 
      It’s a document that was written by and for the rich white male landowners with some of them also being slaveowners, a document that helped its authors obscure the ideology of determining which human beings were fully human based on color of skin and which humans could own them, a document that assisted its writers in perpetuating the genocide of the Natives from whom they had already stolen the land that they “discovered”.

    :|
      December 1, 2019 7:48 PM MST
    3

  • 5379
    In his draft presented to the Continental Congress, Jefferson included language addressing slavery, but it was removed when representatives of the southern colonies threatened to vote against the motion to declare independence. Franklin advised him to agree because he knew that if they didn't achieve independence, the rest of it wouldn't matter.
      December 1, 2019 8:18 PM MST
    5

  • 6254
    Perhaps the philosophy of the drafters of such documents was better than their intent---and what survived is a principle, an acknowledgement that all men are created equal even if the current milieu does not embrace the implementation of that concept.

    The following is just to note that the US is capable of becoming more enlightened and appropriately situational over time when it deals with the implementation of such principles.

    In the pivotal case of Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that racially separate facilities, if equal, did not violate the Constitution. Segregation, the Court said, was not discrimination.

    In Brown v. Board of Education in 1954, Earl Warren wrote the decision for the Court. He agreed with the civil rights attorneys that it was not clear whether the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment intended to permit segregated public education. The doctrine of separate but equal did not appear until 1896, he noted, and it pertained to transportation, not education.

    More importantly, he said, the present was at issue, not the past. Education was perhaps the most vital function of state and local governments, and racial segregation of any kind deprived African Americans of equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment and due process under the Fifth Amendment.


    “ Segregation of white and colored children in public schools has a detrimental effect upon the colored children. The impact is greater when it has the sanction of the law, for the policy of separating the races is usually interpreted as denoting the inferiority of the Negro group...Any language in contrary to this finding is rejected. We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of ‘separate but equal’ has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. ”
    —Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Edit---added an article, an, and underlined 3 more words.  This post was edited by tom jackson at December 2, 2019 7:05 AM MST
      December 2, 2019 12:21 AM MST
    1

  • 5870
    Has nothing to do with equality - it is simple respect.   You are not obligated to rise but if you do not then a judge may get the notion that you do not respect him or her and other people may get the notion that you do not respect the judicial system and so do not consider yourself "equal" at all but rather above it.   Just as if someone offers me a greeting and I do not take their hand they may get the idea I do not respect them.  Mutual respect is the only way a free society can work. 
      December 1, 2019 8:10 PM MST
    3

  • 26557
    I guess if a judge doesn't rise for me, he/she has no respect for me as a citizen.
      December 1, 2019 8:17 PM MST
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  • 26534

      False premise. When you were a teacher, based on traditions, did you A) always and in every situation interact with your students in the exact same way you expected them to interact with you, and B) did your students have to interact with you and other educators, other adults in ways that they may not have liked, yet had little choice otherwise. 

    One small example: I believe that from the first day of preschool, kindergarten, elementary school in general, all students should refer to their teachers by Mr., Miss, Ms., or Miss and then their surnames. I see no valid exception to this. Additionally, I believe that it’s appropriate for those same teachers to refer to the students by their first names, not using a title beforehand. There is no disrespect In expecting children to refer to adults one way and those same adults being allowed to refer to the children a different way, nor do I see it as overbearing or demeaning. Young children may not have the level of understanding to question the tradition, and it’s true that some educators, some adults in general believe that there is nothing wrong with children addressing them by their first names. Other adults in those settings address even very young children with the title Mr., Ms., or Miss. I am of neither of those two camps. 

    ~
      December 1, 2019 8:53 PM MST
    2

  • 6254
    I know you are playing devil's advocate to bring out points, but I think the concept of the "stroke economy" is applicable here---otherwise we have After you; No, after you; Please, I insist; On the contrary, I insist---you go first.......ad infinitum.
      December 2, 2019 12:29 AM MST
    1

  • 4356

    It’s the judge’s “house”, after all, and I don’t need the hassle of a contempt charge, so I’ll stand.

    I would expect a reciprocal response if he were on my patio. 

      December 1, 2019 8:18 PM MST
    3

  • 26534

      As a retired teacher, looking back at your years in classroom settings, did you or did you not expect certain levels of traditionally-based behaviors from students, parents, your coworkers, members of the community, etc.?

      December 1, 2019 8:18 PM MST
    2

  • 26557
    Yes.
      December 2, 2019 7:07 AM MST
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  • 2943
    To show your submission and lower status to an elite class.  Politicians and judges have always been a class of megalomaniacs.  
      December 1, 2019 8:38 PM MST
    1

  • 44094
    Just because you are equal to me doesn't mean I cannot show respect.  What does respecting another and their accomplishments have to do with equality?

    Just because I deserve life as much as you do, doesn't give me the right to act like a jerk.  
      December 2, 2019 1:47 AM MST
    2

  • 26557
    Then why do you? (Joke)
      December 2, 2019 7:08 AM MST
    1

  • 5307
    Rising when a judge enters the courtroom shows respect for the position she holds. What would be wrong would be having to rise when she enters any room.
      December 2, 2019 11:41 AM MST
    1