There were machine guns when the Bill of Rights was written.
Militia means able bodied military aged citizens.
All of the Bill of Rights applies directly to the citizens of the USA. Including the 2nd amendment. It is long established in the courts the right to bare arms is a personal right.
The People don't have the armament that an Abrams is equipped with, that stuff is classified. There were Gatling guns, but belt-driven machine guns were still half a century in the future. A Gatling is HEAVY - it took a small squad to carry and operate it. A militia is defined as a military organisation comprising civilians - that's the simplified OED, but NO definition excludes the terms "military organisation". An armed rabble is not organised, and the Second Amendment specifically states a WELL REGULATED militia. Not a mob.
This post was edited by Slartibartfast at April 11, 2023 8:37 AM MDT
I actually don't think the gatling is that old. But there were more than one style of "machine gun" in 1700s. The Founders knew exactly what they could do with them. And they did not want a standing military but foreseen it would come. This is why we have the 2nd in the Bill of Rights....the people have the right because the gov has guns.
No...the meaning of the word militia is able bodied military age male. You do not get to redefine the words. That is.what it meant then and it is still listed as a definition now. And if we look at the history in the courts it is clear the original position on the amendment. And
if we look at the Founders speeches and writings on the topic.
People may disagree with the 2nd amendment but the meaning it clear.
militia
mə-lĭsh′ə
noun
An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.
From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
(Look at #3...that is the definition from the 2nd amendment)
This post was edited by my2cents at April 20, 2023 8:20 PM MDT
And I disagree it's that clear cut -- a quick research I did and I found many essays and discussions that both agreed and disagreed with your points, with all authors backing up their conclusions.
At least we have macaroni and chees and tuna, ha. I had it last week. :)
Nahhh... The United States has tanks.. The people have puny AR-15's. If there's a rebellion WHO do you think those tank drivers will line up with? Yes, they're conservative.. Yes, they're patriotic.. But, they took an oath.. Are they gonna break it?
My husband's cousin has his own tank. It is completely legal to own...cannot drive it on the streets but legal to own.
If it were to come down to the wire, who knows where people will come down. But most armories are in small towns.
(I am not advocating for armed action towards the USA gov or states gov) Just pointing out that regular people own tanks. Which was implied above that did not happen or is illegal.
Have you ever taken an oath?? Did it have an expiration date? Did it MEAN anything to you? Is it something that you can cavalierly sluff off? I think of you as an honorable person. Honorable people keep their promises.
excon
This post was edited by excon at April 29, 2023 7:59 AM MDT
Can we chew gum and have guns at the same time? Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership, and DOESN'T have mass shootings.. Here's how they do this. And, yes there's a high degree of regulation.. Still, they have guns - LOTS of guns.. Kids even have guns there. It's GUN HEAVEN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkuMLId8SqE
excon
This post was edited by excon at April 20, 2023 8:24 PM MDT
Swiss gun owners are veterans. Every single one of them - a two year hitch is compulsory. If you are permitted an exclusion for religious reasons, or disability, or being a conscientious objector etc - then you can't own a firearm. You serve, or you don't get to have one. Kids do NOT have guns there, they may be permitted by their (veteran) parents to handle their parents' guns under very close supervision - a veteran knows how dangerous they are and ensures that their children don't mishandle them. The kinds of massacres that have become the norm in the US are not perpetrated by veterans.
This post was edited by Slartibartfast at October 19, 2023 7:36 AM MDT
The kinds of massacres that have become the norm in the US are not perpetrated in most other civilized countries. Perhaps one of the other reasons that this doesn't occur in Switzerland is that it is very difficult to obtain citizenship there. Much like Japan, it appears to be a homogenous society and that makes for less division among folks.
So, you don't think we can DO what the Swiss do, and STILL preserve the 2nd Amendment??? I come from a time when national service was compulsory. Mass shooting STARTED when national service STOPPED.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
excon
This post was edited by excon at April 20, 2023 8:27 PM MDT
To all -- I tried to respond here and there - - - can't do it - - thanks for all of your discussions and posts ,whether I officially "like"d them or not
to everyone --
My opinion follows:
Again, nothing will change on this topic.
More guns, more, more more. It's all great.
Yes, I'm too emotional and sarcasm remains.
This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at October 19, 2023 1:24 PM MDT
Slartibartfast 