If He is truly omniscient, then He would already know this would happen. Shouldn't be a surprise, so there'd be nothing to say. But then, that same omniscience would have also determined who all is going to hell before they are even born. Freewill, you say? So much for omniscience. Loving God? More like fickle and capricious, if one actually existed.
It astounds me that any can believe in a God that shows neither humor, consistency, nor common sense. Nor do I find even one redeeming quality in Christianity.
Atheists tend to be more informed about the minutiae of religion than believers, which is, of course, why they are atheists.
This post was edited by Don Barzini at September 30, 2017 4:01 AM MDT
Can an omniscient (and omnipotent) God not include surprise in His personal existence?---There are theories that suggest He is quite able to do so, but I am not sufficiently conversant with them to go there.
And predestination is also a given and yet is not necessarily inconsistent with free will---but I don't have the energy to go there either.
And one of the most interesting offhand comments I once read in a the book The Jesus Myth by (I think) Catholic priest Andrew Greeley Andrew Greely (definitely not by Richard Dawkins) was "The thing God hides from us most is his mirth."
And I will agree that it can be difficult to not be astounded by our tenacious conviction that there is a God.
I am equally astounded---not by the atheist's position, because it is at least reasonable---that so many people still think Trump was a good choice for President.
And, as usual, your clarity of thought and quality of discourse makes you a great addition to this site.
This post was edited by tom jackson at September 26, 2017 2:42 PM MDT
From the standpoint of advocating the supernatural, we might say anything is possible. Surely God has hidden any clues to his mirth even better than evidence of his existence. But from this side, a display of divine humor would be, dare I say, a real revelation. These theories intrigue me.
Maybe His levity lies right in plain sight, because the joke is on us, but we don't get it....yet. Maybe even Trump's ascension is part of it. Egad. I digress.
I thank you for your generous comments, Tom, as usual it is a pleasure to exchange ideas with another formidable mind. Regards.
This post was edited by Don Barzini at September 26, 2017 2:42 PM MDT
Do you have a scintilla of understanding of what Christ is? and what GOD is? They become interchangeable. Christ is God's consciousness in physical form explained as best we can.
Let's cut to the chase. He KNOWS already. He already knew and already will always know everything. OKAY?
Yeah. Like that.
Jesus became CHRIST. He became ONE with Christ Consciousness.
Would you like to see the surprised look on God's face if all the atheists suddenly decided to become Christians? What do you think He would say?
1. That would be very surprising as the wide path from Christianity to atheism is a one way only street
2. God might quite justifiably say "There is no evidence that I sent anyone down to teach Christianity, so why having rejected it did you go back to it?"
Judgment Day and all the stories in scripture were written by men who were inspired by their belief in God. Anyway I've never come across anything sufficiently convincing to assume there must be a God. No belief in the existence of any forces where there is need for a God as the mind & brain to control them.
God answers all prayers. But in your case it sounds like He always says NO.
Perhaps if you tried grace and humility instead of arrogance, asking for mercy for others rather than self-enrichment and a suspension of the Laws of the Universe for your own selfish purposes when taking a knee . . . . No?
And how, exactly, do you "help" others? Do you have any examples?
(By the way, if you really do help others without expectation of payback that would be the "Christian" thing to do . . . )
This post was edited by Salt and Red Pepper at September 25, 2017 4:00 PM MDT
Well sure.. about 20 years ago I began picking up the good stuff people discard; clothing, household items, books etc and passing the goodies to places where they redistribute to needy people, books to a neighborhood library.. 'Bout 5 or 6 years ago I befriended a heroin addicted lady who had become disabled due to loss of a leg , helped her start doing a healthier diet instead of so much junk food, I got her set up selling stuff at a local market to earn extra income to help her avoid doing anything 'illegal' to support her addiction until she makes up her mind to get off the stuff somehow. There were some people who invited me to their church because they thought i had the makings of a good Christian but when they find out I am atheist/non-believer they usually get all snarly at me which seems a truly Christian thing to do.
Maybe that could be but seems I am better suited to being non-believer and not need to be subservient to any church preachings or teachings. Last 'church' I belonged to was the Baha'i Faith people -3 1/2 years then I became agnostic for many years then finally a revelation came to me from the infinite depths of my subconscious that God does not exist. Simple as that.
This post was edited by Kittigate at September 26, 2017 4:32 PM MDT
You and the others who think that prayer works must be the most selfish people on the planet, you never think to pray for the end of hunger, the end of wars, the end of disease, no you are too interested in what will happen with your non existent soul at the end of your life. If I am wrong and you do indeed pray for these things to end, then surely the fact that they are still here is proof enough as to the merit of prayer.
God's comment in the bible was that we should be either for Him or against Him or He would vomit us out of His mouth. That implies He's OK with both Atheists and those who believe in Him.
So perhaps He would find it amusing---assuming He suspends His omniscience for His own sake.
Theologically speaking you're not correct. If you're either for him or you're against him you're still acknowledging His existence. By acknowledging his existence there's always the chance to ask for forgiveness for the sins you've committed.
Atheists commit the only unforgivable sin, denying the very existence of God. Because if they don't believe that God actually exists who are they going to ask for forgiveness.
Ask me how I feel about unicorns---I can answer hat will not address either implicitly or explicitly whether or not I acknowledge their existence.
Atheists lack a believe in Gods. If Christ was suggesting a bifurcation regarding those who think He exists and those who don't, then not believing him as even a possible being is pretty much the opposite of believing in Him and His message.
Atheists lack a belief in gods. And they think there is no reason to change their position. If God exists and still chooses to hide His existence from them (thanks, Virginia), who am I to question his approach?---after all, I wasn't around when God made the world.
But why are you interested in what you think to be dogma, rather than trying to understand how God's mercy might work?
Don Barzini 