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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » Devout Christians, Jews and Muslims. If your child wished to convert to another religion, how would you respond?
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Devout Christians, Jews and Muslims. If your child wished to convert to another religion, how would you respond?

Posted - November 23, 2017
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Responses


  • 5835
    That is a tough question because nobody knows what they are talking about. For instance you casually say "convert" without knowing what conversion is involved. When a person accepts Jesus as the savior a portion of the holy spirit is born within that person and he is converted to a son of God. No philosophy offers any sort of conversion. Changing your philosophy is no more than a decision to eliminate cheese from your diet.
      November 23, 2017 10:48 AM MST
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  • 17404
    Child is the important word here.  Each of us can, may, and will make that choice personally at some point.  My young child would be told that we, as a family, follow the traditions of xxxxxxxxxx.  It is part of our lives together as family.  At an appropriate age in the future you will certainly be free to make that change.  I would  certainly not insist on  Confirmation for such a child.  This should, even as a child, be the child's choice. This post was edited by Thriftymaid at November 24, 2017 2:19 PM MST
      November 24, 2017 2:02 PM MST
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  • 1393
    Q "Devout Christians, Jews and Muslims. If your child wished to convert to another religion, how would you respond?"



    Choose wisely. You might like to consider the following for your list of criteria of a good philosophy/religion. That it must:

    a] be identifiable, well defined and documented

    b] not trample on common sense

    c] be rational

    d] not glaringly contradict either itself or unanimously accepted verifiable facts

    e] make you take full responsibility for your errors [sins] not teach that somebody else will do so 

    f] not hinder progress

    g] offer good practically demonstrated solutions to life’s personal, social and global problems

    h] have wide appeal and following among people of all ethnicities with no concept of a chosen race 

    i] offer the best and most satisfying answers so far to the unanswered questions about existence.

    .
      November 24, 2017 2:24 PM MST
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  • 44231
    All religions can claim those virtues. At least in writing. Few follow them.
      November 29, 2017 10:29 AM MST
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  • 1393
    Good points. My further advice would be:

    If "All religions can claim those virtues. At least in writing." then follow the best one of them. Once you have chosen a religion or philosophy that teaches all those principles then never mind that "Few follow them." just make sure that YOU follow them.
      November 30, 2017 2:34 PM MST
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  • 44231
    I'm not religious. My question was based from a student of mine who was a Jehovah's Witness. He didn't like their ways and wanted to convert to Islam. He wasn't 18 at the time, but I re-assured him he could convert to any religion he wanted too, no matter what his parents say.
      November 30, 2017 3:33 PM MST
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  • 1393
    TY for the interesting background info. You and I are inclined to say to a young person that "he could convert to any religion he wanted [to], no matter what his parents say." and in a tolerant world "any" should mean any within reason. However, in reality conversions can bring many problems, especially for young people. 

    Among Jehovah's Witnesses it is official policy to shun people who leave the faith. Generally there are cases where young people have been thrown out of their homes for converting to another religion. I know of a case where a young atheist graduate from a non practising Christian home was told by his mother, before being thrown out of the house, that she'd rather he had said he had become gay than saying he had become a Muslim. And I recently came across the story of a young Muslim lad who said he was thrown out of his home by his family because he started practising his faith, so there wasn't even a change from one religion to another. We're well into the 21st century but unfortunately there are still some instance of strong prejudice and intolerance.
      November 30, 2017 6:09 PM MST
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  • 2657
    Quote: "Among Jehovah's Witnesses it is official policy to shun people who leave the faith"
    I guess someone forgot to tell Jehovah's Witnesses. I left for 3 years and I wasn't shunned. Of course I didn't turn in an official letter disassociating myself which would mean I am letting them know that I don't want to be with them any more. I also wasn't disfellowshipped for not following virtues like avoiding gross sin or unrepentant wrongdoing. 

    Quote: "Generally there are cases where young people have been thrown out of their homes for converting to another religion."
    Another broad stroke with your brush. Young people under legal age like 18 in the U.S. are not thrown out of their homes for anything that I am aware of. Someone over that regardless of their age that is capable of supporting themselves that wanted to commit apostasy would at least be asked to leave my home. Of course in the case of my stepdad that never was a JW cannot 'convert to another religion' and was allowed to live with us in his older years and would have been even if he was going to another religion as he could not support himself.
    It's best to learn from the source what our policy is regardless of the conscience of individuals and the one sided opinion of someone that has left the faith. An honest person might want to search things like disassociation or disfellowshipping.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e
    https://www.jw.org/en/


    You want to paint with a brush of the same width on Islam? What is common in Islamic Countries for apostasy?
      December 4, 2017 8:04 AM MST
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  • 1393
    1. Unreserved apologies on the first point for slipping up with "it IS official policy to shun" I should have said "it is apparently official policy to" shun. Here is a sample basis. They are not from my personal research, but they come with JW publication references:

    Disfellowship: To "remove the wicked man" or woman from the congregation.
    Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition


    Why Disfellowshipping is a Loving Provision Watchtower 2015 April 15 p.29

    The Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 explains:

    "Thus "disfellowshiping" is what Jehovah's Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer." p.22
    "… a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?" p.25
    2. I stand by my "Generally there are cases where young people have been thrown out of their homes for converting to another religion." The claim is not specific to Jehovah's Witnesses and none of the points you make invalidates the claim in my statement. If you want me to  back up my claim I can post personal publicly made statements by young people thrown out of their homes for religious non comformity.


    This post was edited by CLURT at December 5, 2017 7:32 AM MST
      December 5, 2017 7:25 AM MST
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  • 2657
    It appears that you are trying to make a point that you are correct and I am incorrect by now giving a quote from a publication that doesn't say what you originally said, yes?

    There is a difference in what you said originally "to shun people who leave the faith" compared to what you quote with "appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer"

    As I said, I left the faith for about 3 years. 



    Sorry if I misunderstood and you were not making the claim 'specific to Jehovah's Witnesses'. That wasn't expressly clear to me with: 'Among Jehovah's Witnesses it is official policy to shun people who leave the faith. Generally there are cases where young people have been thrown out of their homes for converting to another religion.'
    If you were not being specific to JW's then no need to post personal publicly made statements. If you were, then 'It's best to learn from the source what our policy is regardless' of 'the one sided opinion of someone that has left the faith'

    I know of a young man who left his parents home at 18 wanting to experience the world. He was never baptized so wouldn't be and never was disfellowshipped for the immoral course that he chose. In his mid-20's they let him move back with agreements like not getting drunk, doing drugs, staying out excessively late or associating with the people that helped him get in to the situation he was in. He constantly broke the rules. He knew that his Father who had a bad back could have used his help in fixing the rebar that the contractor had not layed correctly but never helped with any of it. One of the several nights that he came in late drunk, he drove his car on to the rebar that was ready to poor. That was the last straw and he was asked to leave. According to him it was only because he was not a JW but in truth it was because of his drinking and unloving behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if he posted some sort of slant against JW's on the internet equivalent to his verbal anti-JW rants. 
      December 5, 2017 8:13 AM MST
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  • 1393
    You may be doing yourself a disservice by saying "It appears that you are trying to make a point that you are correct" when I publicly said right at the beginning of my post "Unreserved apologies" Perhaps you normally issue unreserved public apologies when you are correct. I don't.

    I expressed regret for saying "it IS official" instead of "it is apparently official" and to make sure that the reader doesn't get mislead I even quoted from statements attributed to actual JW publication itself, The Watchtower of 1981 Sep 15 which explains "disfellowshiping" as the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer." and warns against even offering "… a simple "Hello" to someone [shunned because it] can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship.
      December 5, 2017 2:37 PM MST
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  • 2657
    If your apology was sincere and we were done with it what was the point of posting those quotes from the publications? You sure didn't copy and paste enough to show your error: "shun people who leave the faith".

    It would be similar if I said that 'Muslims are told to fight everyone that doesn't go to their particular synagogue, even other Muslims'. Then when you corrected me, I apologized for not saying that and say I should have said 'apparently Muslims are told to fight everyone that doesn't go to their particular synagogue'. And then I give partial quotes that on the surface could give the appearance that my statement was correct after all. 

    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them

    Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah

    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you

    Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts 

    Quran (4:89) - seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; 
      December 7, 2017 1:34 AM MST
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  • 1393
    sounds like you're a fan of the inquisition

    maybe your next post in a few dayst will be an official summons to a trial by ordeal - that's when they used to hold one's head in a bucket of water or put burning coal on one's hands. The argument was that if one's confession was sincere then one would not be harmed by either.
      December 7, 2017 8:27 AM MST
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  • 2657
    That's your response to me giving you an example of what you did? You want to make a claim that I would do something that I have not nor would do while drawing attention away from what you did do?

    You can say what you want to divert attention from your insincerity. 
    Notice where your emphasis was in your subsequent post:
    [The Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 explains:

    "Thus "disfellowshiping" is what Jehovah's Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer." p.22]

    No one questioned shunning but rather the reason for shunning that you seem to be avoiding. You said for leaving the faith. JW's do not shun people who just leave the faith as I did. Keep bolding and highlighting what is not the correction needed in your usual politician type of discussion rather than just apologizing for or admitting that JW's do not "shun people who leave the faith".
    The quote above is for how Christians should conduct themselves toward one who had been a Christian “brother” but who was expelled from the congregation because of wrongdoing. In context of where we differ in our conversation which has become the subject, you should have apologized for the accusation of shunning those who leave the faith and perhaps highlighted unrepentant wrongdoer.
      December 7, 2017 9:01 AM MST
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  • 1393
    hope that makes you feel better [but will you see this expression of hope as sincere? remains to be seen]
      December 7, 2017 4:55 PM MST
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  • 7280
    Sounds like a good way to choose a president, wish the minority who voted for Trump had seen this list.

    But aside from eliminating candidates for the presidency, I'd probably do the same thing when buying a new car, using a reference similar to Consumer Reports as my guide.

    I might be pleased with my choice, but there is no guarantee that method will connect me with the God that is as opposed to the God I've chosen because of the best mileage and cargo space.
      November 30, 2017 2:52 PM MST
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  • 1393

    I note your disapproval of a checklist approach to choosing one’s religion or life philosophy but the fact is that everyone HAS at least one criterion which he uses to justify his choice of religion or life philosophy. You too MUST have your single item or multiple item list of justification for your religion or life philosophy. Even if a person bizarrely lets the toss of a coin decide for him, he will have chosen that as his criterion. Many find compelling justification in following the prevailing religion or life philosophy of the family or country they were born into, the so called “blind following”.

    If anyone thinks they have a checklist that is better than the one I have suggested in my answer they’re welcome to post it and I’m willing to discuss it. It’s good to learn from, or at least about, one another’s perspective.  

      November 30, 2017 7:09 PM MST
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  • 5835
    Religions are all made up by men telling each other what to do. They are no more than local customs. Very few people can understand that concept because they all assume that religions are NOT made up by men.

    Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

    "Delivered unto me," get it? Satan is the god of earthly authority. If your church uses the customary corporate authority hierarchy, it is serving Satan.
      December 1, 2017 10:17 AM MST
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  • 1393
    "Religions are all made up by men telling each other what to do." >>> We can agree on the obvious that religions are all transmitted by men telling each other what to do.

    I see that according to you "If your church uses the customary corporate authority hierarchy, it is serving Satan." However, it is a fact that not all religions use the customary corporate authority hierarchy. Islam, for example, does not have or use the customary corporate authority hierarchy. 
      December 1, 2017 1:45 PM MST
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  • 3463
    I raised my son to be a free spirit and to think for himself. He has no religion to convert from, but if he did I would support him as long as it wasn't some crazy cult or something like that.
      November 29, 2017 9:07 AM MST
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  • 7280
    So you gave him no direction in the area of the existence of a god and his possible responses to that possibility?  Because unless you talked to him specifically about that, he has by default, adopted your position toward a god and whether he should care about religion.

    Children cannot be raised in a vacuum. If you don't think something to be important, it's unlikely they will think it so---and they are unlikely to give the subject any more importance than you gave it.
      November 30, 2017 3:01 PM MST
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  • 44231
    (God)
      November 30, 2017 3:34 PM MST
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  • 3463
    Yes, I did raise him in a religion and he has broken out from it and has gone out on his own.
    He is a very strong believer in God and worships in his own way.
      November 30, 2017 3:35 PM MST
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  • 2217
    If they are adult, it is up to them. At the very least, making their own choice should result in a stronger faith of their own rather than an uncritical shadow of their parents'. 
      November 30, 2017 2:52 PM MST
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