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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » If God is a trinity, shouldn't it be mentioned in the Bible?
texasescimo

If God is a trinity, shouldn't it be mentioned in the Bible?


Shouldn't statements that flat out say that the Father is the only true God be considered spurious and not in every manuscript and translation?
Saying our everlasting life has something to do with coming to know the Father, who is the only true God seems a bit confusing if the only true God is Father, Son and a Holy Ghost.

(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 8:5, 6) For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.
(John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

 
When the nation of Israel received the Law covenant, which forms part of the Bible, they were commanded: “You must never have any other gods against my face.” (Deuteronomy 5:7) How many persons were speaking here? Without any confusion, Deuteronomy 6:4 reads: “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah”​—not three in one. Israel had just been liberated from Egypt, where Osiris, Isis, and Horus —one of a number of triads of gods—​were worshipped. Therefore, Israel was commanded to worship just one God. How important was it for people to understand this command? According to Dr. J. H. Hertz, a rabbi: “This sublime pronouncement of absolute monotheism was a declaration of war against all polytheism . . . The Shema excludes the trinity of the Christian creed as a violation of the Unity of God.”

This is not in the Bible:
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Posted - May 4, 2020
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Responses


  • 5391

    What’s this.... Christians don’t really know what the Bible does or doesn’t say?

    The hell you say. 

      May 4, 2020 4:06 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Pretty much. Thank you for your answer Don.
      May 4, 2020 6:35 PM MDT
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  • 5391

    Demonstrating yet again that faith is the most dishonest position it is possible to hold. Asserting what can’t be proven true as unerring fact, projecting ultimate authority to implausible claims, and subverting reason to extoll wishful thinking: Lying.
    Lying to children for centuries to perpetuate the whole enterprise. 

    Thanks for your reply, T. You bring your proselytizing and I’ll bring mine. 

    This post was edited by Don Barzini at May 5, 2020 8:24 PM MDT
      May 4, 2020 7:05 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Don't you have faith that humans came from an apelike critter or something like that?
    To believe the teaching of macroevolution is true, don't you have to have faith that agnostic or atheistic scientists will not let their personal beliefs influence their interpretations of scientific findings.
    Doesn't it take faith to believe that mutations and natural selection produced all complex life-forms even though a century of research that shows that mutations have not transformed even one properly defined species into something entirely new.
    Don't you need faith to believe that all creatures gradually evolved from a common ancestor, in spite of fossils that lean towards that the major kinds of plants and animals appeared abruptly and did not evolve into other kinds, even over aeons of time. (Or now I think the theory of evolution evolved for some to be in a few common ancestors rather than a common ancestor?
      May 10, 2020 1:58 PM MDT
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  • 5808
    There is something you can do
    to bring understanding
    instead of confusion into your life.
         Visit God Directly 
    and ask your questions.
    God exists within you as you.
    Experience your Self, 
    beyond your thoughts.
    Therein is Moksha
      May 4, 2020 4:57 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Okay so does that mean that everyone that has a fuzzy feeling inside is communicating with God and for some, God is a trinity, for some, God is one, and for others, he is a cow?
      May 4, 2020 6:36 PM MDT
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  • 492
    No, She is a cow. God is a cow. She is God. 
    There's your trinity.
      May 8, 2020 5:11 AM MDT
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  • 4624
    If someone insists on being that literalist about the Bible,
    then he or she must (to be morally consistent) accept everything it prescribes,
    irrespective of whether is is kind, wise and just, or not.

    Having the read Bible several times, (and no, I don't see the JW version as any improvement),
    it's my belief that the world would be in an even worse mess than it is if everyone followed it's dictates literally.

    For instance - the reason Christians keep the the Old Testament is to show that Jesus is of the House of David - because it was predicted that the Messiah could only come from that family, the one most favoured by God because of its lineage of obedient patriarchs and virtuous mothers.
    Noah was one of the most pivotal of the patriarchs. And it was he who, according to the Old Testament, invented slavery. 

    Genesis 9:22-27, KJV

    20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

    21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

    22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

    23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

    24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

    25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

    26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

    27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.



    So if we all took Noah's example of how God wanted us to live, slavery would still be legal, and women would still be stoned to death for adultery but men would still be free to f*ck or rape any woman they fancied and suffer no punishment. 

    In my view, it doesn't matter what the religion is; as soon as beliefs become controlled by hierarchies of power, corruption becomes inevitable.

    But if I had to side with people who are religious, I'd choose those who are open-minded and who think from the first principles of what it really means to love others equally. It is not possible to do that if one takes the Bible literally.



    This post was edited by inky at May 5, 2020 8:25 PM MDT
      May 4, 2020 6:19 PM MDT
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  • 5391

    If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he followed strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane. 

    -Robert G Ingersoll

      May 4, 2020 6:37 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Change of subject? Maybe you should ask that question or questions as another question?
      May 4, 2020 6:38 PM MDT
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  • 10026
    To me, there is something mysteriously magical about 3.
    You do have a trinity within and around you. 
    You do have a spirit.  Right now it is traveling in a human vessel, i.e. body.  Your body will die and stay on Earth.  Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.  It belongs here.  We need to be nice to them since they allow our spirits to be here.  Your spirit will leave your body and rise out of your body and continue on its journey. All these actions will happen to us not matter what your religion or no religion.
    Please remember, this is simply my opinion on how the trinity works within us.  We do have power.  The number III is represented in many ways, all over the place.
    I also have a strong belief in guardian angels. Call them or him/her anything you would like but I know I have an energy that helps me along the way. 
    That is how I see life and death and spirits.  A trinity, if you will.

    I have never read the bible from cover to cover. When I was old enough to understand what I was reading, I found it a collection of short stories that were extremely violent.  I don't normally read that type of book. However, I do appreciate, respect and honor the lessons I have read and do go to church without hesitation when asked.
     




    This post was edited by Merlin at May 5, 2020 8:25 PM MDT
      May 5, 2020 3:07 AM MDT
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  • 2219
    The trinity doctrine isn't actually Biblical, but a tradition dating from later than the Bible. 
      May 5, 2020 4:26 AM MDT
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  • 1305
    This is how I comprehend it..

    1) Yhwh



    1) Jesus Christ had the fullness of Yhwh, (which is why Jesus means Yhwh's salvation), which were the seven spirits before the throne (Isaiah 11:2).

    John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of myself: but the Father that DWELLETH IN me, HE doeth the works. This is also shown in Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of "no reputation," and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he "humbled himself," and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 "For it is God which worketh IN you both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure."This is why Christ said John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.  Once, you experience this there will be no more questions.

    1) The Holy Spirit of God (Yhwh).

    Hence, these are all of Yhwh. 

    Yhwh intends to reconcile everything to him, by first making you one in Christ, since he made the world through Christ (the Word), and then drawing Christ to himself, so that he will be ALL and IN ALL.  Hence, is it so difficult to believe that the fullness of God was in Christ, when he gives his spirit to you? This is why like Christ, one must die to the fleshly self (earthly Adam), and be reborn of the spirit of God, like Christ (the spiritual Adam), as son's of God, not of natural birth, but of heavenly birth, and so having God's Holy Spirit dwell within you.


    This post was edited by kjames at May 5, 2020 8:25 PM MDT
      May 5, 2020 5:57 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    I feel like you are trying to say something although not clear what it is. Sounds like some type of philosophy anyway. From previous conversations with you, I feel you are alluding to some trinitarian dogma. Do you believe that the Father is the only true God as Jesus said?

    Why do you use the English KJV yet reject God's name as translated in it?

    Notice a better translation of Phil 2:6 which also takes in to consideration of the context about humility. Christ isn't really showing humility by the way the KJV translates it, is he?

    Phil 2:6 (ESV) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

    [Philippians 2:5, 6:
    KJ reads: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (Dy has the same wording. JB reads: “he did not cling to his equality with God.”) However, in NW the latter portion of that passage reads: “who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure [Greek, har·pag·monʹ], namely, that he should be equal to God.” (RS, NE, TEV, NAB convey the same thought.)
    Which thought agrees with the context? Verse 5 counsels Christians to imitate Christ in the matter here being discussed. Could they be urged to consider it “not robbery,” but their right, “to be equal with God”? Surely not! However, they can imitate one who “gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (NW) (Compare Genesis 3:5.) Such a translation also agrees with Jesus Christ himself, who said: “The Father is greater than I.”—John 14:28.
    The Expositor’s Greek Testament says: “We cannot find any passage where [har·paʹzo] or any of its derivatives [including har·pag·monʹ] has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.
    ]

    Notice that in John 14, Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than he is and he does what the Father commands him to do, yes?

    (Colossians 2:8) Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;
    (Ephesians 5:6) Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.
    (Hebrews 13:9) Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings, for it is better for the heart to be strengthened by undeserved kindness than by foods, which do not benefit those occupied with them.


    (John 14:10) Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.
    (John 17:21) so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.
    (John 14:28) You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.
    But for the world to know that I love the Father, I am doing just as the Father has commanded me to do. Get up, let us go from here.


    There is a reason that I pointed out in my question how EVERY translation renders the verses I cited similarly. Any verse in any translation in opposition to that is translation specific.


    Try this popular trinitarian slant on older manuscripts and modern translations that have access to them.
    1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
      May 5, 2020 8:17 PM MDT
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  • 5391

    The big gorilla in the room here is,
    So What? 
    Exactly whose mind do you hope to change here? 

    It has been said the devil can quote scripture for his purpose, and you can predictably pick it apart for yours. 

    Sure, the invention of the trinity is no more supported in scripture than the sale of indulgences or clerical chastity. But again, so what? We know the willfully obedient will accept what they are told, what their group-think espouses, because theist belief is not built on evidence, but on confirmation bias, imperious tones, rote recitation, conjecture and circular logic. Why 35,000 discordant denominations sprang from ever-differing versions of the same source material.
    Too bad an omniscient creator-deity couldn’t have foreseen and prevented the confusion. 

    This post was edited by Don Barzini at May 6, 2020 5:07 AM MDT
      May 6, 2020 4:30 AM MDT
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  • 34270
    So what is what I would ask of the confirmed atheists who all rushed on to the Bible question not to address the question but to bash the religion/Bible itself. So what....why? 

      May 6, 2020 5:03 AM MDT
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  • 5391

    Sorry that facts offend you. Probably why you defend the Bible. Worried that I may impact someone’s belief? Call it a personal goal.

    As far as I‘ve heard, it remains an open forum, you can always scroll past the answers you don’t like. 

      May 6, 2020 5:19 AM MDT
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  • 34270
    Why do you care if I believe or Tex believes in the Trinity? That is the topic of the question if you want to discuss something else...the validity of the Bible etc ask your own question. Why hi-jack this question? 
      May 6, 2020 5:23 AM MDT
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  • 5391

    I don’t care what you believe. Make no mistake about that. 

    It amuses me to undress logical fallacies, and stoke the fires of dispute of tired religious dogma. 

    This post was edited by Don Barzini at May 6, 2020 6:35 AM MDT
      May 6, 2020 6:32 AM MDT
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  • 34270
    Yet, here we are. 
      May 6, 2020 7:07 AM MDT
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  • 5391
    And there you go. 
      May 6, 2020 1:14 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    I know that the truth has something to do with everlasting life. To me, lives are at stake.

    This would be a better question back at you:
    "The big gorilla in the room here is,
    So What?
    Exactly whose mind do you hope to change here?"



    EDIT:
     
    Quote: "Too bad an omniscient creator-deity couldn’t have foreseen and prevented the confusion."

    He obviously could have "prevented the confusion" but Jehovah does not want robots, he wants honest individuals that want to live in peace and harmony with God and man. Freedom of choice does not mean freedom from consequences.

    As far as "couldn't have foreseen", I don't know why you think he didn't, if you have read the Bible.

    Maybe you are familiar with some of this?
    The Illustration of Wheat and Weeds and the conclusion of the system of things given by Jesus at Matthew 13:24-30,36-43.showed that there was going to be an apostasy until the time of the end. The thought that some have held to the true teachings of the Bible from the time of the apostles is not supported by scripture.

    AN APOSTASY WAS FORETOLD.
    (Amos 8:11-12) “‘Look! There are days coming,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘and I will send a famine into the land, a famine, not for bread, and a thirst, not for water, but for hearing the words of Jehovah. 12 And they will certainly stagger from sea all the way to sea, and from north even to the sunrise. They will keep roving about while searching for the word of Jehovah, but they will not find [it].

    (Acts 20:29-30) I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.

    (2 Thessalonians 2:3-7) Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do YOU not remember that, while I was yet with YOU, I used to tell YOU these things? 6 And so now YOU know the thing that acts as a restraint, with a view to his being revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way.

    (1 John 2:18) Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.
    (Jude 3-4) Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write YOU about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write YOU to exhort YOU to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones. 4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ.
    (2 Peter 2:1-3) However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.
    (1 Timothy 4:1-3) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.
    (2 Timothy 4:3-4) For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.
    Matthew 24:11) And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; This post was edited by texasescimo at May 6, 2020 8:12 AM MDT
      May 6, 2020 6:39 AM MDT
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  • 5391

    In taking my quote out of the context it was presented in, you managed to prove the very points that preceded it, congratulations, and thanks. 

    None of your droning paragraphs of man-made scripture breaks any new or useful ground here, just stoking the usual fear of and disdain for the withering light of reason that those like myself can bring to dismiss it. Reinforcing sheep-think.

    The truth is what the facts are. Period. Contact with existent reality will not be proactively realized by a mind steeped in backward, fact-averse mythology, no
    matter how hard one wishes it. 

    This post was edited by Don Barzini at May 6, 2020 1:30 PM MDT
      May 6, 2020 12:59 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Sorry, let me try again. So when you said: "Too bad an omniscient creator-deity couldn’t have foreseen and prevented the confusion.", you didn't mean that you thought that it was too bad that an omniscient creator-deity couldn’t have foreseen and prevented the confusion?
      May 6, 2020 3:16 PM MDT
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