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Discussion » Questions » Outside the Mug » Is free will real or just an illusion?

Is free will real or just an illusion?






Posted - August 22, 2017

Responses


  • 1305
    I don't know, but it's bloody expensive!
      August 22, 2017 11:38 AM MDT
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  • 7126
    Lol.... true either way!  
      August 22, 2017 11:51 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    It's a total illusion.  We get to make choices, but we don't get to choose much.  We cannot choose not to die, for instance. 

      August 22, 2017 11:42 AM MDT
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  • 7126
    So there is some free will, but within a framework of non-choice.
      August 22, 2017 11:52 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    WOW we speaka da same language here.
      August 22, 2017 4:32 PM MDT
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  • 7126
    Was just thinking of you. They've been interviewing yahoos over at the convention center. Who have been lining up since this morning. One woman said she's more excited to see Cheeto Benito than she was seeing the Beatles. Tinfoil hat sales must be through the roof. Civilization as we know it is officially over. 
      August 22, 2017 4:46 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    People WANT to see him.  It is 106 today and these goons are outside waiting in line and the SHOW doesn't start till 7.   I think they are letting people in already though. 

      August 22, 2017 5:56 PM MDT
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  • 7126
    I heard people get preferred seating if they're married to a sibling or cousin. That's bringing the excitement level to a fever pitch.
      August 22, 2017 6:46 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    No.  Not here. That is the south.  This is the west. No one is married at all.  We are all bastids.
      August 22, 2017 6:48 PM MDT
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  • 7126

    Ahh, I see. My bad. But I did read that immigration issues play into the collective brain damage. All those "nasty" Mexicans scooping up the valuable jobs they were just aching to do. And Papa Trump is gonna magically make all their "troubles" disappear.
      August 22, 2017 6:53 PM MDT
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  • 23570
    More than THE BEATLES???  smh (repeatedly)
      August 22, 2017 6:48 PM MDT
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  • 7126
    That was the quote. Maybe it's the exotic orange monkey hair.
      August 22, 2017 6:52 PM MDT
    1

  • 23570
    I am so close to saying potentially-derogatory remarks about what the woman said but I won't. My mouth just dropped that President Trump is bigger for this woman than The Beatles. Hey - - who am I to say anything?

    I've already said too much. Out of here. (I'm sure her experience will exceed all of her expectations, I bet.)
      August 22, 2017 6:57 PM MDT
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  • 7126
    There, there.

      August 22, 2017 7:00 PM MDT
    1

  • 23570
    Ha! You're so kind! I love it!
    :)
      August 22, 2017 7:02 PM MDT
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  • 6477
    I think it must be real.. cos if it were an illusion I'd make it so that I was surrounded by adoring fans all willing to wait on me hand and foot and to fulfill my every wish :P
      August 22, 2017 12:15 PM MDT
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  • 13395
    I'm not really hungry but I think I will have a hotdogs with mustard & relish -and a coffee 
    I chose not to put a . at the end of my first sentence. 
    Isn't that all free will?

    Although I agree most things we do are instinctive. 
      August 22, 2017 12:18 PM MDT
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  • 7126
    Yes, we all have free will to an extent.  Even a person in prison can decide whether or not to eat his bologna sandwich. 

    But what about the norms we adhere to as a society? Do we refrain from stealing because we make that choice, or because it's illegal and we might get caught?  

    Choice versus what is imposed upon us is the question.   
      August 22, 2017 12:43 PM MDT
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  • 6023
    To provide a definitive answer to that question ... you would have to provide a definitive answer to whether or not there was a "higher power", and the nature of that "higher power".

    If there is no "higher power" ... then free will is a given because there is nothing to override your will.
    Note that free WILL does not equal free ACTIONS.
      August 22, 2017 1:42 PM MDT
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  • 5354
    I think that guy standing over there with his mashine gun have an issue he want to discuss with you.

    But mostly I agree, the real question is "are our lives predictable?" and I dont know the answer.
      August 22, 2017 2:01 PM MDT
    1

  • 6023
    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me.

    I should have made it more clear that by "higher power" I meant in the sense of a deity.  lol

    Did you ever read the Foundation series by Asimov?
    According to the series ... the larger the group of individuals, the more predictable its actions.
    1 individual = not so predictable.
    1 planet = very predictable.
    1 galactic empire = scary accurate predictions.

    Of course, the series was written before forensic profilers.

      August 22, 2017 3:12 PM MDT
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  • 5354
    Yea, I read the foundation series. And also Asimows own critique of it. It first fail when 'the Mule' is born an unexpected mutant human who could never have been a part of Sheldons theory at all: the theory must perforce assume that humans are a constant.
    Woo, Woo. the second foundation comes to the rescue and steers things back on track, but how many other mutants get born in a humanity numbering millions of trillions. No way could their effects be predicted by anyone.

    But what I noticed most was that Asimov is American, individualist to the core. Again and again the story gets saved by an individialist genius that everyone else think is crazy. Heroes, there gotta be heroes ;-)) but the very idea of individualistic heroes blows Sheldons theories out of the water. They would be one of the dangers the second foundation was set up to prevent.
      August 22, 2017 5:43 PM MDT
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  • 6023

    All good points ... and goes to prove that the actions of a "mob" are predictable, but the actions of individuals are less so.
    Which means if everyone goes along with the "mob think", you can predict what will happen.
    But if someone actively goes against the "mob think", it makes it more difficult to predict.
    >> Of course, the tendency of "mobs" is to get rid of anyone who goes against them.

    On the individual level ... I suppose you can predict our lives to a certain degree.
    After all, that's what an insurance actuarial does.  Predict the risk of death/injury based on gender, age, ethnicity, and lifestyle.

      August 23, 2017 8:03 AM MDT
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  • 5354
    Yes, byt how 'accurately' do actuarians do it? I read somewhere that even today when serious people no longer consider AIDS a gay disease, Homosexuals still have to pay higher life insurance premiums, Silly, but there is still strong religious pressure and anyway, the higher premiums for a group means higher income for the insurance companies, so there is no hurry to 'fix' it. Heck, even lesbians have to pay such higher premiums even though lesbian sex is less likely to cause rips and tears that break the skin.
      August 23, 2017 8:36 AM MDT
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