Jesus saved souls. What else might He have saved?

"what I say are likely a way for you to try to somehow trap me in my speech." >>> your speech will  be reflecting your beliefs. So you're afraid of your beliefs? you're afraid that they're trappable? That's why you hesitate to put a summary of the main points of your belief on the table for us to get a clear overall picture of them.

Not at all, just not real comfortable with you rewording what the Bible says and what I say.

For example I could have missed when you said: "they can have Paradise if they sacrifice a sinless human" or your comment about a toil-less life. May be other little changes I miss and then you would say: "You agreed with..."
You lack of sincerity is unquestionable. Just like you saying the two horned ram and hairy he-goat are open to an interpretation because you refuse to look at any part of the Bible that you can't twist in to your agenda.


EDIT: Another one of your misguided points: "That's why you hesitate to put a summary of the main points of your belief on the table for us to get a clear overall picture of them."
Is that the reason you refuse to answer questions about your beliefs and the Quran?
Two simple questions for you, if you don't mind:
According to the Quran, why do we die?
Who go to heaven and why?


This post was edited by texasescimo at May 25, 2018 7:06 AM MDT

1. "You lack of sincerity is unquestionable." >>> You've made yourself accuser, judge and jury but I'm not on trial for my sincerity.

2. "then you would say: "You agreed with..."" >>> if you specify [in your language "agree"] something and I put it down in the summary. You then read the summary and feel it is not right and you say to me "that's not right. I want to change it to say xyz" I would change it. That's what I've been doing so far. After all the summary is supposed to be an accurate representation of your understanding of your beliefs. *I* am writing them because you said you find it difficult to summarise the main points of your beliefs.

3. It seems that you're afraid that you or your reputation might come to some harm by disclosing your understanding of the main points of your beliefs, because that's all we're talking of at the moment.

Are you really having that much difficulty in understanding the scriptures?

Although created perfect, Adam deliberately and knowingly rebelled against God. Due to that, Jehovah cursed the ground and things were going to be hard and he was to die. No one clean can come from someone unclean so we all have inherited sin and death from Adam. Jehovah quickly gave a prophecy with a provision to offset the death inherited by his offspring. 

Isaiah 43:27) Your first forefather sinned, And your own spokesmen have rebelled against me.
(Genesis 3:17) And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life.

(Job 14:4) Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!
(Psalm 51:5) Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin.
(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
(Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
(Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
(1 Corinthians 15:21) For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.
(Matthew 20:28) Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

(Isaiah 53:11) Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, Will bring a righteous standing to many people, And their errors he will bear.
(Mark 10:45) For even the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”
(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
(Hebrews 9:28) so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.

 

See if I have this right:

1. You are saying that I accused you and made a judge and jury and Allah is questioning if you are sincere?
2. You want me to type in English words that you will deliberately change hoping that I will initially agree with something you rewrote in a gray area when I made it in black and white and then you want me to later change it.
3. You've made yourself accuser, judge and jury but I'm not on trial for my fear. You want to reword my understanding of the main points of my beliefs so you can then make them say just a little different than what I actually said.

Two simple questions for you, if you don't mind:
According to the Quran, why do we die?
Who go to heaven and why?

 

Wow! You posted a summary of the main point of your belief.

1. Adam was created perfect.

2. Adam deliberately and knowingly rebelled against God.

3. Due to that, Jehovah cursed the ground and things were going to be hard [for Adam] and he was to die.

4. No one clean can come from someone unclean so we all have inherited sin and death from Adam.

5. Jehovah quickly gave a prophecy with a provision to offset the death inherited by his offspring. 


That's good but you might want to complete the story before we start to make it more reasonable [for example, after we get the complete picture you might want to consider whether "Jehovah cursed the ground" is necessary, because it doesn't sound a reasonable thing to do]

(Genesis 3:15-19) And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.” 16 To the woman he said: “I will greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in pain you will give birth to children, and your longing will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.” 17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”


Can you complete your story or only say mine doesn't sound reasonable?

See if I have this right:

1. You are saying that I accused you and made a judge and jury and Allah is questioning if you are sincere?
2. You want me to type in English words that you will deliberately change hoping that I will initially agree with something you rewrote in a gray area when I made it in black and white and then you want me to later change it.
3. You've made yourself accuser, judge and jury but I'm not on trial for my fear. You want to reword my understanding of the main points of my beliefs so you can then make them say just a little different than what I actually said.

Two simple questions for you, if you don't mind:
According to the Quran, why do we die?
Who go to heaven and why?

When you feel confident enough to describe your beliefs in your own words then we'll take this particular conversation further.

When you feel confident enough to describe your beliefs in your own words then we'll take this particular conversation further, until then keep trying to question and look for loop holes in the beliefs of others.

But in case you do have confidence in your beliefs and don't mind others rewording what you say like you do to others:

See if I have this right:

1. You are saying that I accused you and made a judge and jury and Allah is questioning if you are sincere?
2. You want me to type in English words that you will deliberately change hoping that I will initially agree with something you rewrote in a gray area when I made it in black and white and then you want me to later change it.
3. You've made yourself accuser, judge and jury but I'm not on trial for my fear. You want to reword my understanding of the main points of my beliefs so you can then make them say just a little different than what I actually said.

Two simple questions for you, if you don't mind:
According to the Quran, why do we die?
Who go to heaven and why?

" look for loop holes in the beliefs of others." >>> so you're confident that there are loop holes. If you were confident there are no loop holes then you'd be confident that there are no loop holes for anybody to find anyway.

1. "According to the Quran, why do we die?" >>> we die because we have been created mortal. God has decreed life and natural death. Neither of those happens according to our own will [at least not yet] Life on earth is a test for us to see whether we will believe that we have a creator and will follow His guidance for how we conduct ourselves in our limited life on earth. Those who do the will of their creator will in the hereafter find the doors of heaven open for them, because that's what they chose. Those who chose to follow their own whims and desires and committed injustices in their lives will have chosen to close for themselves the doors of heaven and the only other doors to go through will be the doors of hell. There is no injustice or surprise in any of that because the creator appointed guides for all people that ever existed who spelled out the above.

2. "Who go to heaven and why?" >>>> I think this too is answered above.

That's good but you might want to complete the story before we start to make it more reasonable [for example, after we get the complete picture you might want to consider whether " Life on earth is a test ...  find the doors of heaven open ... the only other doors to go through will be the doors of hell" is necessary, because it doesn't sound a reasonable thing to do]

So even though most people desire to keep living as long as they can on earth, Allah created them with a defect eliminating that possibility?
Allah created them with their own whims and desires with the possibility of them going to hell if they follow the whims and desires Allah gave them as a test?
The error is not man's, but Allah's and he made no provision to offset that dying condition man is in?
If he wanted man in heaven from the beginning of their creation, why not just put them in heaven to begin with?
Did he not make angels for heaven or did they start out on earth to?
If people don't recognize the guides, they go to hell?
How is doors to hell reasonable and just?

1. "even though most people desire to keep living as long as they can on earth" >>> some people may want to keep on living in this life but the reality is that we've all been created mortals in this life. That has been the reality throughout human history, so far.

2. "The error is not man's, but Allah's and he made no provision to offset that dying condition man is in?" >>> we're free to regard life and death as an error in design if we want to. There are people who regard the universe itself as an accident. The fact, as stated above, is that life and death are a reality of the here and now. The Qur'anic perspective is that it is life in the hereafter which will be free of death.

3. "Allah created them with their own whims and desires" >>>> It's a reality that all humans with an active mind have their own whims and desires which they have a free will to follow or resist.

4. regarding "the possibility of them going to hell if they follow the whims and desires" and "How is doors to hell reasonable and just?" >>> The idea of consequences of action is not alien to humans. Most people organise themselves into communities and groups with their own laws, rules or regulations, and there are usually consequences for breaking or abiding by those laws, rules or regulations. These consequences have, and in some cases still do, range from painful death, torture, physical punishment, incarceration to withdrawal of privileges or a simple admonition..

5. "Did he [God] not make angels for heaven or did they start out on earth to?" >>> not being an angel myself nor being in any communication with them I tend not to concern myself too much about them. The Qur'an gives the impression that they're unseen beings who have no free will of their own but serve God's purposes as He decrees.

6. "If people don't recognize the guides, they go to hell?" >>> As stated above, "Those who chose to follow their own whims and desires [instead of recognizing and accepting the guides that were sent to them] and committed injustices in their lives will have chosen to close for themselves the doors of heaven and the only other doors to go through will be the doors of hell."
[

Your numbering got way out of order of my questions and enough was left out to where I can't even follow. 
Basically, your beliefs seem to parallel that of Christendom. Immortality of the soul with either an eternity in heaven or an eternity of being tormented forever in Hell Fire.

I do ask though, sense angels have no free will, is there no Satan? Muhammad plagiarized much of Christendoms understanding of the Bible and most of them believe in Satan.

"enough was left out to where I can't even follow." >>> never mind. I expect the omissions have made it too complex for some to follow.

As for your complaint that "Muhammad plagiarized much of Christendoms understanding of the Bible" that's quite understandable.

Pretty much.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=soul&p=par&r=occ

• Soul

• • The traditional rendering of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. In examining the way these terms are used in the Bible, it becomes evident that they basically refer to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal has. (Ge 1:20; 2:7; Nu 31:28; 1Pe 3:20; also ftns.) In contrast to the way that the term “soul” is used in many religious contexts, the Bible shows that both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ, in connection with earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal. In this translation, these original-language words have most often been rendered according to their meaning in each context, using such terms as “life,” “creature,” “person,” “one’s whole being,” or simply as a personal pronoun (for example, “I” for “my soul”). In most cases, footnotes give the alternative rendering “soul.” When the term “soul” is used, either in the main text or in footnotes, it should be understood in line with the above explanation. When referring to doing something with one’s whole soul, it means to do it with one’s whole being, wholeheartedly, or with one’s whole life. (De 6:5; Mt 22:37) In some contexts, these original-language words can be used to refer to the desire or appetite of a living creature. They can also refer to a dead person or a dead body.​—Nu 6:6; Pr 23:2; Isa 56:11; Hag 2:13.

Interesting that the Bible portrays God and Jesus as two separate individuals.

(John 14:1) “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me.
(Revelation 1:1) A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John, 
(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

(1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 8:5, 6) For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

What's interesting to me is that there is no time in God---all moments are present to Him.---And yet the JW's restrict His communications about what He is to a short period of what we call time.

Isaiah 6:9-10
 
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Maybe the JW's are just Israel recycled.

Bravo, you used a scripture, although about 2700 years out of context and you as a Catholic will not go an warn anyone because you do not know what the Bible says or why things are the way they are.

(Isaiah 6:8-11) Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!”  9 And he replied, “Go, and say to this people: ‘You will hear again and again, But you will not understand; You will see again and again, But you will not get any knowledge.’ 10 Make the heart of this people unreceptive, Make their ears unresponsive, And paste their eyes together, So that they may not see with their eyes And hear with their ears, So that their heart may not understand And they may not turn back and be healed.” 11 At this I said: “How long, O Jehovah?” Then he said: “Until the cities crash in ruins without an inhabitant And the houses are without people And the land is ruined and desolate;


EDIT:
Jehovah has given us prophecies warning us about the apostasy that you consider light.

(1 Timothy 4:1-4) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. 4 For every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
2 Thess. 2:3: “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”

Acts 20:30: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”
2 Pet. 2:1, 3: “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.”

Luke 6:46: “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?”
Matt. 28:19, 20: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”
Matt. 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

This post was edited by texasescimo at May 26, 2018 5:56 AM MDT

You took the bait on the quote I listed.  The last 45 years I fished I never did get "skunked"---my record is apparently still intact.

The JW's are the new equivalent to the "this people" referred to in the Isaiah quote I referenced.

And then we were again warned against the JW's in the New Testament---

 (1 Timothy 4:1-4) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. 4 For every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
2 Thess. 2:3: “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”

Acts 20:30: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”
2 Pet. 2:1, 3: “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.”

Luke 6:46: “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?”

Matt. 28:19, 20: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”

Matt. 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

JW's reject the trinity; say that Jesus was not divine; and think that the Holy Spirit is a "force" and not a person.

So,after Isaiah referred to you, Timothy identified you specifically:  2 Thess. 2:3: “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”

Edit---add italics and underline. This post was edited by tom jackson at May 26, 2018 5:47 PM MDT

Oh yes, you really got me. Let go of your ego and read the Bible. You make the claims but what do the JW's do in opposition to the written record in the Bible?

(1 Timothy 4:1-4) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. 4 For every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
That's for sure Catholics. 
JW's do not forbid Priests and Nuns from being married. They have no lent or any time when they forbid certain foods. 

2 Pet. 2:1, 3: “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.”
JW's are not the ones that made up "God the Son", Trinity, immortality of the soul, Hell Fire, Christmas, Easter, etc, that's Catholics.

Luke 6:46: “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?”
Matt. 28:19, 20: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”
Matt. 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”
JW's do what Jesus said. You will likely see them at your door but they are not likely to see you at theirs.

2 Thess. 2:3: “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
You as a Catholic claim that changes in doctrine since the time of the apostles is just the trinity revealing more about himself rather than constraining themself or himselves to a book rather than admitting that was an apostasy from the apostles.


The trinity is not biblical but 4th century Catholic doctrine. Jesus was and is divine. 
Is the trinity the Father, the Son and a divine wind?
Is the trinity the Father, the Son and a mighty wind?
Genesis 1:2 (NJB) Now the earth was a formless void, there was darkness over the deep, with a divine wind sweeping over the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (NAB) and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—
Genesis 1:2 (NIV) Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (KJV) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

Oh, I forgot to mention one other thing---He could have saved you from your tortured rendition of the bible and the conclusions you say it supports.