Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » If God does not answer prayers should the religious powers-that-be shut down the churches?
Kittigate

If God does not answer prayers should the religious powers-that-be shut down the churches?

Or a partial shutdown..  You pray for peace but chaos,  corruption and war still haplens; you pray for health and healing but sickness and death still happens; you pray for wealth but unemployment happens.
But at least when you pray for atheists you always get atheists. 

Posted - December 24, 2018
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Responses


  • 13277
    But since nobody actually hears such things, what "He" says exists only in the mind of the person quoting it.

    And you still haven't explained whom you mean by "religious powers that be." Seems like a very nebulous concept.
     This post was edited by Stu Spelling Bee at December 25, 2018 9:39 AM MST
      December 25, 2018 9:37 AM MST
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  • 13395
    When I communicate with religious believers usually try to keep in line with their beliefs -unless there is something I totally disagree with and explain how I see it. 
      December 25, 2018 9:51 AM MST
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  • 13277
    But when you talk about what "He" says or when "He changes His mind," how do you know this - or that there even is some higher being existing in human form with a mind capable of being changed?
      December 25, 2018 10:07 AM MST
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  • 13395
    I show respect for people's religious beliefs most of the time so they don't become paranoid about me being one of those awful atheists. 
      December 25, 2018 10:13 AM MST
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  • 13277
    And what's so awful about atheists? That they disagree with you?
      December 25, 2018 10:21 AM MST
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  • 13395
    Sometimes some atheists do disagree with me in some ways but our common belief is non-existent of supernatural elements.

    And you'll note I explained 'powers-that-be a ways back. This post was edited by Kittigate at December 25, 2018 10:44 AM MST
      December 25, 2018 10:39 AM MST
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  • 5835

    2 Peter 1:3 King James Version (KJV)

    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    "All things," get it? God has said all He is going to, and many people will stay in the dark for a lifetime rather than read what God has already given. And then they blame God for leaving them stupid!

      December 25, 2018 4:40 PM MST
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  • 13395
    Very good but not being convinced the existence of supernatural creator/God I am inclined to believe the bible story writings were inspired by the writers'  belief in God .
      December 25, 2018 5:27 PM MST
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  • 46117
    … and then there's that.  I forgot about you nay-sayers again.

    Thanks! 
      December 25, 2018 5:43 PM MST
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  • 13395
    Well I would like to unravel all the chaos in chaos theory which might help explain some so-called miraculous events where the odds are about a trillion to one for any such event to occur. 

    Natural phenomena. 
      December 25, 2018 8:08 PM MST
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  • 5835
    IOW you are off topic and want to fight about it. Ok, you can fight by yourself.
      December 25, 2018 10:35 PM MST
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  • 11108
    I think there would still be a need for churches even if it was found out God doesn't answer prayers. There are kids in my community that woke up to Christmas presents and extra food today thanks to churches. Anyway if churches do shut down and sell their assets I'm bidding on the Pope Mobile. Cheers and Merry Christmas! 
      December 25, 2018 11:24 AM MST
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  • 4624
    I expect that most religious people (except perhaps children) don't really expect that it is God's job to answer their prayers.

    They would probably say that despite the mystery and unpredictability of His actions, everything He does is part of a larger wisdom or plan which is beyond human conception.

    It's an argument that ensures God remains comfortingly perceived as omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and good.
      December 25, 2018 1:56 PM MST
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  • 46117
    That was beautifully put.  The only thing I wish I could give you, but of course, I cannot, is the knowledge that God, while fitting ALL of your perfect description, has a quality that changed my existence.  God is so close to you right now that you can reach him instantaneously.  He is not a remote in the scheme of things.  HE IS HERE.  He is within you, around you, beside you and behind you.  You could not escape God if you tried because he is a part of you.  Your soul is a drop in the ocean of God consciousness.

    Merry Christmas and thank you for your wonderful writings.  So well thought-out.

      December 25, 2018 5:47 PM MST
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  • 7280
    I would guess that you have never experienced a prayer of yours being answered. 

    I can only say that your experience saddens me greatly.

    Edit:  deleted an inaccurate reference. This post was edited by tom jackson at January 27, 2019 10:07 PM MST
      January 27, 2019 10:05 PM MST
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  • 4624

    I was raised in an atheist household and did not hear mention of god or any definition till about seven years old, and that was by chance in the school playground.
    It struck me as a curious belief then and still does - all versions of it.

    I have done a fair bit of research into what peoples around the world believe and the variations of beliefs within sects. It is endlessly interesting and it helps me to better understand people and their thinking, values and behaviour - but it has not altered my own approach which is still atheist.

    If there is a god who is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and good, then he would have the power to fill me with belief.
    Since that has never happened to me, I don't worry about it. I doubt if my life would be any different as a result. I probably would have made all the same choices.

    I cannot imagine that a good god's job would be to answer the prayers of every believer. That would be like a kid asking a parent to supply all his or her wishes - not always in the best interests of the child or others, and leading to a bad case of being spoilt, dependent and irresponsible.

    Or if god was not the Jewish, Christian or Muslim god, but was one of the Hindu or others gods, the issue of answering or not answering prayers would be the same.

    Let's try the Lord's Prayer.
    "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
    Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread,
    And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us, 
    And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil,
    For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever,
    Amen"

    It addresses a male parent and authority figure with a tone of respect and reverence - this sets the attitude of mind of the person who prays.
    This father is in a place believed to exist, but in some spiritual or other dimension which cannot be literally known or experienced on earth, despite the fact that we colloquially refer to any intensely enjoyable experience as "heavenly".
    The last phrase of the second line implies that heaven is the father's kingdom - the place where he dwells and rules. It implies that he does not rule on Earth - but wishes and entreats or begs that he would, to make earth a heavenly place. Here, it is implied that god is not necessarily omnipotent, not everywhere.

    The third line asks to be given our daily bread - which presumably implies food, clothing, shelter -- our basic needs to sustain life. This is really odd because the raven is not fed by god but hunts his or her own food, and the lily is not clothed but naked and could not live if a covering deprived it of sunlight or rain; and like all things in nature, humans must work for a living. Those who do not work are often assumed to be bludgers and are often greatly resented or ostracised.

    "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us." In my view, forgiving another is not about absolving the other of their responsibility for some mistake, misdemeanour or crime. To do that would result in people behaving selfishly and'or unethically whenever they chose. Forgiveness is about dissolving the anger within oneself - because harbouring anger can lead to enmity and unconscious or conscious acts of revenge; it can rapidly escalate the harm humans can do to each other. It's usually not too hard to forgive when one understands why someone did something. One might then take appropriate action to avoid being harmed by that person in future, and to avoid similar types of people or situations - but there is no resentment or residue of anger or hate.
    Then the prayer asks to be delivered from temptation. Why hope for a supernatural power to remove temptation when consideration of the consequences of doing an unethical thing is enough to destroy any moment of temptation?
    The last is a return to the reverence and respect, reminding the supplicant of god's omnipotence.

    I have not needed a god to teach me to behave well.
    I see the law of cause and effect operating in everything.
    How we think affects how we feel, speak and behave. It affects the patterns we develop.
    It affects how the small repetitions build up - in the same way that shelling peas eventually produces enough peas for a meal,
    or the unmended broken stitch in a hem will mean that it will soon catch, tear and fall.
    No matter how tiny the thought, words or deeds, there are always consequences. This post was edited by inky at February 2, 2019 2:46 PM MST
      January 28, 2019 4:21 PM MST
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  • 2657
    Hi Nom de Plume. I haven't been on here in a while and may not be on here for a while again. I was reading your comment and thought I would log in and post. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I often got in to ugly debates on here and likely offended many as I was offended by some. Not right of me by any means.
    (2 Timothy 2:23-26)

    The  following link touches on part of what you said, if you have sincere questions:

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004681?q=lord%27s+prayer&p=par
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004681?q=lord%27s+prayer&p=par

    The Lord’s Prayer​—Its Meaning for You

    n

    The first part of the Lord's prayer is actually on topic with our latest magazine:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019005?q=%22lord%27s+prayer%22&p=par

    What Is God’s Name?

    n

    The above website is available in more languages than any other as JW's care about people all over the earth, no matter how tiny or remote.
    (Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
    (Acts 1:8) But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

    I found this link interesting:

    https://www.pangeanic.com/knowledge_center/which-is-the-most-translated-website-in-the-world/

    Well, the undisputed champion when it comes to offering multilingual translations of its content is not Apple, it is not Microsoft, Adobe, nor even the United Nations or the European Union as you might expect. It is the Jehovah’s Witnesses website (https://www.jw.org) which as you can notice by its url, offers a secure connection to its site.  Jehovah’s Witnesses website is translated into more than 978 languages and dialects*, from Abkhazian to Zulu. (*Data taken in October 2018)
      February 2, 2019 12:18 PM MST
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  • 7280
    That is an honest comment, and it deserves an honest reply.  It also requires the dramatis personae for this sub-thread.  To wit, I am Catholic. You are an atheist. And Catholics view the Jehovah's Witnesses as perpetuating the old Arian heresy---the Christological (concerning the doctrine of Christ) position that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God.

    And for the record, I consider both Catholicism and atheism to be rational and reasonable positions.



    I have quoted some of what you have written in your comment above.  My thoughts are in italics for ease of separation.

    (And I am not trying to "correct" you on anything---I'm just saying how I view things.)

    If there is a god who is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and good, then he would have the power to fill me with belief.
    He does, but you have to freely accept that belief. He allows us to reject Him. (He respects our Free Will.)

    I cannot imagine that a good god's job would be to answer the prayers of every believer.
    Like any father, the answer can be yes, no, maybe or (and perhaps lesser known)---you’ve got to be kidding.

    The last phrase of the second line implies that heaven is the father's kingdom - the place where he dwells and rules. It implies that he does not rule on Earth - but wishes and entreats or begs that he would, to make earth a heavenly place. Here, it is implied that god is not necessarily omnipotent, not everywhere.

    He has complete authority on earth even now; but what you observe here is His ordained remedy to the fall of Adam & Eve---a new reality brought by Christ, His Son and second person of the trinity. God is necessarily omnipotent, but works on earth by invitation rather than compulsion.
     
    This is really odd because the raven is not fed by god but hunts his or her own food, and the lily is not clothed but naked and could not live if a covering deprived it of sunlight or rain.
    God is the creator of everything, including food and the form of living things.  The lily did not design itself.

    And like all things in nature, humans must work for a living. Those who do not work are often assumed to be bludgers and are often greatly resented or ostracised.
    Well, that is a result of the Fall of Adam & Eve. (And William F Buckley JR made a good argument for the necessity of the "idle" rich if you are establishing in a society.)

    "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us."
    In my view, forgiving another is not about absolving the other of their responsibility for some mistake, misdemeanour or crime. To do that would result in people behaving selfishly and'or unethically whenever they chose.
    Well, of course it’s not. It goes to a deeper truth that it’s not what happens to us in life, rather it’s what well tell ourselves about what happens.

    Why hope for a supernatural power to remove temptation when consideration of the consequences of doing an unethical thing is enough to destroy any moment of temptation?
    We humans cannot do anything that the will does not see as good. Anything man does, right or wrong, is done because that human does that thing because he---rightly or wrongly---perceives that the desired outcome will be good for him.
      February 4, 2019 12:57 PM MST
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  • 2657
    Hi Tom. I know that you are more for the traditions of men rather than for the Bible but your Church allows Bible reading now, although they don't encourage it so you shouldn't get in trouble for looking up these verses in your Bible, if you have one. I may not reply but I may so feel free to post.
    (Mark 7:13) Thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like this.”

    God made Jesus our Lord and Savior.
    (Acts 13:23) From the offspring of this [man] according to his promise God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus,
    (1 Timothy 1:15) Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.

    (1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.
    (1 John 4:14-15) In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Godremains in union with such one and he in union with God.
    (Acts 4:12) Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
    (Acts 10:43) To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name.”.

    John 3:16-17) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 ForGod sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
    (Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?

    Jesus is mediator between God and man.
    (John 14:6) Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    (1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

    (John 5:24) Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.

    (Acts 2:36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.”

    (Hebrews 1:2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.



     

    The only person above Jesus is his God and Father.


    (John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
    (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
    (John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
    (1 Corinthians 11:3) But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.
    (2 Corinthians 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort,
    (Ephesians 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,
    (1 Peter 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    (Romans 15:6) that with one accord YOU may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    (John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”

    (Revelation 3:2) Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your deeds fully performed before my God.

    (Revelation 3:12) “‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.



    The Father created Jesus and then through Jesus, God created everything else.

    (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
    (Hebrews 1:2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.
    (John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence
    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5565&t=NASB

    (John 1:10) He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him, but the world did not know him.
    (Colossians 1:15-16) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.
    (Revelation 3:14) “And to the angel of the congregation in La    ‧o‧di‧ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God, 
    (Proverbs 8:22) “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.
    (Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 
    (Genesis 1:26) And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 

    Jesus also said that "I live because of the Father", Jehovah does not live because of anyone else.
    (John 6:57) Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.
    In line with the principle at 1Cor 15:27-28, it is evident that everything, would be with the exception of himself and God, as he obviously did not create himself or God. The Bible shows thatGod created Jesus and then through Jesus, he created everything else. 

    1Cor 15:27-28 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

      February 4, 2019 5:27 PM MST
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  • 4624
    Hi Tom,
    I really like your tone in writing. It is so respectful of differing views, so direct, honest and to the point.
    I had difficulty finding the Buckley argument you mentioned. But I did find quite a lot by and about him - he was witty and super bright,
    a very interesting and independent thinker.
    I agree with his libertarianism, but certainly not his conservatism. I don't mind a somewhat conservative approach to change, for instance, making small experiments to see how well they work, and if successful, expanding the experiment by gradual increments to see how well it works on larger scales.
    He uses language with beauty and power - extraordinarily skilled.
    At times, he is surprisingly liberal and open-minded for one so far to the right - and then at other times astonishingly ignorant of facts (for instance, concerning AIDS).
    I could nowhere find his argument for the necessity of the idle rich.

    "it’s not what happens to us in life, rather it’s what well tell ourselves about what happens." - You make an interesting point, Tom. In most instances, I agree. When we take umbrage at another's behaviour or words, it is most often due to how we interpret what they said or did, and how we perceive the way their actions or words affect our interests (eg our relationships, health, property, work prospects etc). But not always. If a small child witnessed his father murdering his mother and bears anger towards his father because of it - I do not see this as solely a matter of "interpretation" - the fact is that the child has been grievously wounded in numerous ways over which he has little or no control. Throughout the world, in wars and in numerous other ways, there are times when one person's actions cause irreversible harm to the lives of others. These events are not matters of interpretation - the evidence is so blindingly obvious - and the effects of really serious behaviours often snowball and multiply.

    Some people do decide based only on what is good for them personally - perhaps even many.
    That is not what I was talking about. What I meant was - almost all of us have the capacity to cultivate empathy for others within ourselves, irrespective of faith or lack of it. Empathy is not sympathy or pity, but the genuine capacity to recognise and feel the emotions and pain of others - it is an aspect of unconditional love. When we have this feeling, we simply cannot do something which has effects that harm or might harm others. When I consider consequences, I do not just mean how something affects me, but all its effects. An atheist can feel this way just as much as a person of any faith. For me, even how I dispose of my garbage has effects on the life of the planet, for instance, I don't want nano-plastic falling into the guts of fish and damaging their health and that of the rest of the food chain. It is not just my neighbour's well-being that matters, but the well-being of all life.

    All that said, The more I encounter your words, the more I find I like and respect you, Tom.
      February 6, 2019 9:21 PM MST
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  • 2657
    Hi Nom, I find your comment a bit puzzling; "Hi Tom,
    I really like your tone in writing. It is so respectful of differing views, so direct, honest and to the point..."

    Guess you didn't notice his passive aggressive comment about JW's?
    Did ya notice how he mentioned Catholics, Atheist, and JW's and then added in a not so direct insult of respecting only two view points? "And for the record, I consider both Catholicism and atheism to be rational and reasonable positions.
    "
    JW's do not believe what Arius believed as Tom asserts.

    From Tom's comment after I entered the thread: "...To wit, I am Catholic. You are an atheist. And Catholics view the Jehovah's Witnesses as perpetuating the old Arian heresy---the Christological (concerning the doctrine of Christ) position that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God.

    And for the record, I consider both Catholicism and atheism to be rational and reasonable positions...."



    EDIT: For the record, Atheism was often a crime when Catholicism ruled. Too much opposition now or the Church would still burn people at the stake.

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06166a.htm
    When Robespierre had sent the partisans of Hébert and of Danton to the scaffold, he attempted to set up in France what he called la religion de l'Etre Suprême. Liberty of conscience was suppressed, but atheism was also a crime. Quoting the words of Rousseau about the indispensable dogmas, Robespierre had himself proclaimed a religious leader, a pontiff, and a dictator; and the worship of the Etre Suprême was held up by his supporters as the religious embodiment of patriotism. 

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm
     Everyone was bound to denounce heretics, the names of the witnesses were kept secret; after 1243, when Innocent IV sanctioned the laws of Emperor Frederick II and of Louis IX against heretics, torture was applied in trials; the guilty persons were delivered up to the civil authorities and actually burnt at the stake. This post was edited by texasescimo at February 9, 2019 5:57 PM MST
      February 9, 2019 5:33 PM MST
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  • 1305
    I'm not sure if this will answer your question, but I'll explain what I think best I can.  Prayer and church are not synonymous.  I don't go to church because most now preach the Old Testament in order to draw the crowds in, selling them prosperity, and such while taking their tithes.  The New Testament doesn't teach this, in fact the very opposite..

    This is how Jesus says to pray..

    Our Father who art in heaven,
    Hallowed be thy name,
    Thy kingdom come,
    Thy will be done,
    On earth as it is in heaven,
    Give us this day our daily bread,
    and forgive us our trespasses,
    As we forgive those who trespass against us (something I struggle with admittedly),
    Lead us not into temptation,
    But deliver us from evil.

    The NT also teaches that man is not to be ruled by this world, because you will then be ruled by the desires of eyes, and the pride of possessions and these things are NOT from the father, but from the world. This is where the 7 deadly sins lie and they get people into a lot of trouble.

    1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

    Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    James 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

    Coloss 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

    Matt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.


    The NT doesn't offer peace, it tells us that the world will hate you if you follow Christ, because you are not it's own just like it hated Christ, and you will be persecuted like Christ. 
    John 15:18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.

    John 12:46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.  (If Christ comes as light, then this world must contain darkness.

    Eph 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

    Romans 12:1-2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    2 Cor 4: 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.  (Hence, the god of this world is not God).

    Gal 2:2 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

    Matt 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

    1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. (Sin of the flesh and death). 1 cor 15:56 the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us victory through our law Jesus Christ.

    1 Cor15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam made a living soul": the last Adam is a quickening Spirit (Two different Adams). Howbeit it that was not first was spiritual; but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are also that who are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such they are also that are heavenly. And as we have born the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I saw brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.  Behold, I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.              

                                                                       

      December 26, 2018 3:05 PM MST
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  • 1393
    Q "If God does not answer prayers should the religious powers-that-be shut down the churches?
    Or a partial shutdown.. You pray for peace but chaos, corruption and war still haplens; you pray for health and healing but sickness and death still happens; you pray for wealth but unemployment happens.
    But at least when you pray for atheists you always get atheists."
    ===========================================================================================

    1. Maybe if you do not do whatever is within your capacity to bring about what you're praying for then God doesn't take your prayer seriously.

    2. There are vested interests that stand in the way of most of the worthy and possible things in your list. If you're serious about your prayer you need to at least join or support movements or organisations that are against those vested interests. Take the armaments industry, for example. It profits from keeping wars going and making threats of attacks appear real and overwhelming. It has powerful lobbies that push for high levels of "defence" spending. According to World Beyond War organisation just 3% of US military spending could end starvation on earth!


    3. As for "at least when you pray for atheists you always get atheists." who would pray for atheists, who to and what for?

      January 26, 2019 7:08 PM MST
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  • 13395
    There are Christians who have offered to pray for me and i've heard atheists talk about Christians offering to pray for them. Praying (0resumably to God) for atheists and getting more atheists helps to fulfill the end-of-times prophecy that non-believers will begin to outnumber those who continue to believe. 
      January 26, 2019 9:30 PM MST
    1

  • 1393
    Hi Kittigate

    "Praying (0resumably to God) for atheists and getting more atheists helps to fulfill the end-of-times prophecy that non-believers will begin to outnumber those who continue to believe." >>>> "Praying for atheists" is a rather ambiguous phrase. It could mean [1] praying for an abundance of atheists as in "praying for rain" or it could mean [2] praying that atheists be given what you want them to be given [probably faith] or it could also mean [3] praying that atheists be given what they want to be given [probably total elimination of religion]. 

      January 27, 2019 2:02 PM MST
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